The World of Online Content Marketing Does It Really Work? This week on WP-Tonic, Jonathan Denwood and Kim Shivler interviewed Adam Fout of Blue Steele Solutions ( They dug into Content Marketing discussing the importance of a Content Strategy and how to create powerful content.

Highlights of the show include:

Adam ties content marketing back to Seth Godin’s Permission Based Marketing ideas. It’s where we have come as consumers. We prefer to be engaged than be “sold to,” which is why inbound marketing, when done right, can be so successful.

The importance of understanding your customer. Adam recommended going beyond just identifying your target customer. Create customer personas for each customer. Why are they? What do they like? How do they consume content and what do they buy?

We talked about how Style Guides are critical if you have other writers helping you create content and how they can help an individual writer stay on point, also. A style guide is a written guide that explains what our brand does or doesn’t do in our content. It includes things like tone of production, words to use and not use, and it might be industry specific, also.

We also talked about the importance of an Editorial Calendar. This is a calendar to track what you’re publishing, when, and by whom. It allows you to look at how you want the various content arranged. For example, if you have similar blog articles, how you want to space them out for variety?


Our episode this week is sponsored by INTELLIGENCEWP.Finally, an analytics plugin that provides valuable metrics and results that increase your leads.INTELLIGENCEWP.

The World of Online Content Marketing Does It Really Work?

Key Discussion Point During The Interview

1 Content Marketing Strategy

2 – Style Guilds

3 – How to Delegate, Automate your Content Marketing

4 – Editorial Calendar

5 – Killer Content Research Tactics

6 – Lead Magnets

7 – SOP Standard Operating Procedures



Here A Full Transcription Of Our Interview With Adam

Jonathan: Welcome back folks to our Wednesday interview show. I’m really looking forward to this discussion. It’s going to be about Content Strategy, how to get traffic to your website, how to make powerful content and we’ve got a great guest. He’s been on the Round-Table show a few times. That’s Adam Fout. And he’s from Blue Steele Solutions which is a leading Digital Agency in Texas I believe.

Adam: Yes.

Jonathan: And also Adam’s going to be talking at WordCamp Dallas this weekend. Would you like to expand that introduction Adam?

Adam: Sure. I’d love to. So, I’m Adam Fout. I’m the Content Marketer extraordinaire for Blue Steele Solutions. So, we have a few other writers we work with, but I’m the primary writer. And our website is It has an extra E at the end. My personal website is And you can find us at Twitter @bluesteeletx.

Jonathan: I’d also like to introduce my co-host. She has back. She’s been a little bit ill and dealing with hurricanes and all sorts of things, but she’s back stronger than ever. Kim, like to introduce yourself?

Kim: Absolutely. Thank you, Jonathan. I’m Kim Shivler. I’m a Technology and Communications Instructor. You can find me at

Jonathan: That’s great. And the founder of WP-Tonic. We’re a maintenance service company with a specialization in Learning Management Systems. We’ve got a passion for that. Also, before we go into the discussion, I’d like to mention our sponsor which is IntelligenceWP. It’s an amazing product. I’ve got it on the WP-Tonic website. Tom, one of the founders, walked me through it a couple weeks ago. It’s mind-bending. And basically what does it do folks? It really helps you expand how you can utilize Google Analytics in a way that goes over some other popular Google Analytic plugins which are out there. The base plugin is totally free. It isn’t crippled. Go over. You’ll find the links on the WP-Tonic website. And I suggest you have a look at it, have a play with it. And also content, Tom, if you’ve got any questions, he’s really very open to doing demos with people and being part of the WordPress community.

Adam: Yeah. That’s a great plugin too. It’s great for writers too. It tells you what content is best and what content’s not so best. It’s great for identifying who your best writers are.

Jonathan: Yeah. That’s great. It’s mind-blowing the amount of work they’ve done with it, isn’t Adam?

Adam: Yeah.

Jonathan: It really is folks. Go play with it. It is quite amazing actually. Into the interview Adam. So Content Marketing and how to utilize it really effectively for your business has a become a real passion for me. It’s a necessity.

Adam: Yeah.

Jonathan: And I’ve been trying to educate myself. And so, I’ve been really looking forward to you coming on the show and us having a good fest about this. So what is the landscape around Content Marketing in 2017, getting close to 2018? Is it still effective? HubSpot was the big kind of this concept. People say it’s a public company. They say that the cost for themselves is enormous. What’s your views about all this?

Adam: Well, I think the idea for it, you know, I mean, you can trace that back to like Seth Godin and his Permission Marketing and beyond that. So it’s been around for quite a while. I think that it’s easy for stuff like this, for people to say, they’ve got to get an article out so they say Content Marketing is dead. That’s very common to see that come up every year or so. And it’s not going to be. And you know you mentioned SEO. These two go so closely together, right? Hand in hand. You can’t do Content Marketing without SEO and vice versa. The search landscape is constantly expanding and changing. You have new things coming down the shoot that will have a powerful impact on all of that. And there’s just always going to be, especially for certain types of businesses, opportunities. And even for businesses that are, like HubSpot that have just dominated a corner of the market. That market is going to continue to expand. I read the other day that Google said something like, some huge percentage of their search queries they’d never seen before. And what that indicates to me is that people are becoming more adept at search. They’re changing the way they search, especially with voice coming on, with AI becoming relevant.

And that means there’s going to be different searches, different types of searches and different opportunities for Content Marketers to answer questions that are coming up on search and to just create that content. I don’t know. I really get annoyed when people say, “Well, you can’t possibly create content in this space because HubSpot has created this, this, this”, or someone else has created this, this, this because they’re so big and they’ve got this huge domain authority. But that’s not true. You can write with your and in your style and take a different take on the exact same thing and have an article that becomes popular and that reaches out to your readers. So I think that it’s very much alive and well. I don’t think the concept behind it is ever really going to become something that people don’t like. Inbound Marketing, Permission Marketing, people like that better than Ads thrown in their face. And as Ad blindness continues and worseness, this is the stuff that’s going to continue to work.

Jonathan: I thought that was great. So let’s really delve into this. This isn’t going to an episode for the beginners folks. But if you are a beginner to these concepts, in the show notes we have some links to some good content that will help you like Copyblogger, Alan Clarke. I’ll make sure there’s some links to things that will educate you. Now, on reflection Adam, one of the things that I failed on and my travel down this road is having a real Content Marketing Strategy. Now, what does that really mean? And can you give some insights into why it’s important?

Adam: Sure. What you usually see and what we see a lot of the time with our clients when we first take them on is there has been a very rudimentary understanding, not all our clients. Some of them are very smart. But there’s been a rudimentary understanding of how this stuff works. Most people are not Content Marketers, right? They’re business owners of some sort. They do something else that they’re very good at and they want to use Content Marketing to expand their reach, expand their business. So what they’re doing is basically just pumping content out there. But by pumping we’re talking maybe once or twice a month. Actually, it’s more like 6 times a year. So you’re getting very little content put out there and they don’t really know why they’re doing it. They that vaguely a blog post will do something for a search. That’s about all they really know. They know that Google likes it.

But they have no sort of strategy behind that content, why they’re creating it. And a lot of it is perfectly great content. It’s just they have no method and no long-term path to taking, I write this piece of content and put this amount of my time into it which is time taken away from my business. How is that going to turn into some sort of a return in the long run? And with a strategy, you can do a whole lot. And the content, with the same amount of work done the road that you’re putting in the writing side of things or the content creation side of things, you can get so much farther if you have a strategy for the content. That has to go hand in hand with an SEO strategy of some sort. If you’re just producing content and you don’t have any sort of keyword research, you have no sort of strategy behind how you’re going that content’s going to be found and no sort of distribution strategy or social, email, all that stuff. If you don’t have a strategy behind that, you’ll have a lot of beautiful content that just sits on your website that nobody can find and nobody knows about.

Jonathan: Yeah. Let’s delve into what strategy means. Through my own education, it’s really understanding what your target audience is, which a lot of businesses and on reflection, I didn’t either, what your real target audience is. And then really understanding what are some of their key problems and answering in your content those problems. Would you agree with those statements Adam?

Adam: Yeah. I would agree completely. But it can be expanded a lot beyond that. I think a good place to start is with, “Who are the people I’m trying to get to my business? Who are my customers? Not just traffic on my website. Who are the people that I want to pay me money for things?”. And getting to know them. But you also have to take a real close hard look at your brand. How does my brand align with my audience? My audience may have a whole bunch of questions about, let’s say I’m a Roofing Company. My audience may have a whole bunch of questions about shingles in a residential home. But if I’m doing commercial roofing, that does mean nothing. And no matter how many times that question comes up with my target audience and I have to redirect and say, “Well, we don’t do that”. That piece of content, if I write something about shingles, is it going to get more of those people I don’t want. And so, even though that is getting me traffic, it’s not getting me the right traffic. Even though it is a content piece that maybe performs really well for me because I’ve done the SEO side of things right, if it’s not the right traffic, well who cares. If it’s not bringing me people who are interested in my business, if it’s not helping me grow my business, it’s not useful. So having that strategy in place and I would make this distinction between, I got so excited I tore my headphones off.

Jonathan: Actually, it’s getting very excited. Getting very animated. You’ll be able to see this on the video folks.

Adam: There’s a distinction between strategy and tactics, right? The tactics are the blog posts that I’m writing each week or each month. The tactics are the lead magnets that I’m creating once every 3 months or the whitepapers, whatever the case may be. Those are my tactics. But my strategy is what are the goals for my business? There’s the brand piece of it, right? And how do those goals align with my customers’ goals? What content do I need to come up with that’s going to get people to my website? Or wherever. Content’s not necessarily just driving stuff to websites. How do I align those two things? And how do I come up with this overarching strategy of achieving my goals? So the strategy is like this long-term plan that’s looking down the road and saying, “This is why I’m writing one blog post every 2 days as opposed to one every day. This is why I’m doing this”. And then, the tactic is what are the individual things I’m doing?

Jonathan: Right. I want to see if you agree with this topic. Because what you’ve just said is the tricky part of this Adam, isn’t it? Because this is why it’s a lot more, it’s a little bit more complicated than what a lot of people think.

Adam: Yes.

Jonathan: Because you’ve got to meet those things you’ve outlined. So to broaden out one of my statements is yes, problems. You have to understand the audience that you’re trying to attract. But it doesn’t also have to be solely the things you write about. Solely about the specific service or product that you provide. It could also talk about other problems that your specific target audience has. Would you agree with that?

Adam: Yeah. Absolutely. And that’s why when someone says, “Oh, there’s all this content in this space. There’s no way we’re going to get it”. Well, there’s so many tangential pieces of content that you could write that are related that are not directly what you would like to write. We do Digital Marketing. There are certain subjects that the big guys have just completely covered and we’re probably not going to beat them on. However, there are many related subjects that we can write about in plenty and the same goes for the customers. The other side of it that I would point out is just because a customer has a question doesn’t mean it’s the right question. Just because a customer thinks that they need to know something and you are the expert, right? You may know that that’s actually the wrong question or that there’s a better way of phrasing that question. There are all kinds of ways that you can approach this with content. I think that it’s just so broad. You’re not going to run out of content to write for decades.

Jonathan: So let’s just back in getting your strategy formatted.

Adam: Yeah.
Jonathan: So basically, you need to go out there, talk to your clients, talk to people in the area, have some idea about your target audience and then you’ve got to really get input. Are you correct in your assumptions about the target audience? And then you’ve got to a substantial bit of research about what are their real problems that they’re dealing on a daily, weekly, monthly basis. And then work out some content strategy through that research. Would I be right about that?

Adam: Yes. You’re so right lately. Yes. The only thing I would add to that really is the SEO side of things. Because when we say SEO, it’s this huge umbrella term. But when I’m talking about search, that taps into what my audience is doing online and their questions. It’s very important to go out and actually have conversations with people. If you’re heavily introverted, send them an email or something. But getting to know the actual members of your audience. And as a business owner or a marketer or whatever, you’re going to have plenty of chances to do that and to send out surveys. Even a little bit of data is gold on what these people are thinking. Beyond that, by doing keyword research in the space just as an example, you can find out what are people looking for. What are people interested in? What are their concerns? It takes practice. It takes a lot of time digging through queries and learning, you know, “Okay. When a query is structured this way, their intent is probably this and when it’s structured that way, they’re probably looking for that”. Some of it is just getting to know your industry and understanding that, well, just because they use this word, I think they actually meant that, stuff like that.

But that helps you to understand your audience as well. And one that we do that we really push is the creation of customer personas which are, that may have been on the list of things to discuss. But the customer persona, well, let’s talk about it then. If I ask all these questions, that gets into the strategy part of it. It’s one thing to ask questions and do a thought experiment. It’s a completely different thing to write everything down and keep notes and lists of, “Okay. These are the queries that are being searched for in relation to my business. These are the questions that I’ve asked my customers that they have answered. And here are their answers line by line”. I’m going to use that to create a fake persona that represents one segment of my audience. So that when I’m writing and this is where it becomes important. When I’m creating my content, I’m trying to think of who is this for. Who is it for and what question am I trying to help them with?

And sometimes it really does have to be, okay. Here’s my persona. This is Dummy Darryl. He’s got money to spend and he understands a very small part of what I do. But he really doesn’t get certain things. And I’m going to create content that helps him to not be such a dummy and to learn more about my product or my service or whatever the case may be at the industry. There’s a lot of pieces that go into a strategy that you have to get into place before. This is stuff that we spend hours and hours and hours and hours on because you don’t want to even get started if you don’t have the right based.

Jonathan: It’s about having good foundations to your Content Marketing Strategies. You can have the nicest house you love. But if it’s got rotten foundations, you’ve got problems.

Adam: Yeah.

Jonathan: Well, folks. We’ve just dealt with one of the topics that I wanted to discuss. It’s the kind of groundwork of the discussion. We’re going to go for our break now. But when we come back with the help of my co-host Kim, we’re going to be talking about Style Guides, how to delegate and automate your Content Marketing, Editorial Calendars and doing that kind of keyword research that Adam’s just talked about as well. So you can see we’ll be covering a lot of content in the second half of the show folks and in the bonus content. We’ll see you in a few moments.

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Jonathan: We’re coming back folks. I’ve enjoyed the conversation so far. I’m going to let me co-host take over for a while. Off you go Kim.

Kim: Thank you. This is has been great and it’s brought up lots more questions for me surrounding this. One on the personas. Something I find sometimes with my customers and I want to see your take on it is that it’s not just about asking them and listening, but really getting to the core of what their true problem is. Because a lot of times what they’re telling they want is not really, it’s how they know how to explain it. But it’s not really, if I gave them that exact thing, they’d be like, “No. That’s not what I want”.

Adam: Right.

Kim: I have to distill it out. So how does that play into what kind of content I should be delivering on my site?

Adam: And those are things that you can, as you’re building out personas, that you can determine. With the example I gave of Dummy Darryl. It’s not that he doesn’t understand what he should be asking. He’s not an industry professional. He doesn’t work in the industry that you work in. He doesn’t know what questions he should be asking. But you know right away, “I need to dig in a little bit deeper here”. Using that can help you to create all kinds of pieces of content. And this is where you can start really getting into the strategy side of things, like, “Okay. If I have someone who’s way back here and they really don’t understand a whole lot at all of what they’re looking for, I can create a series of pieces of content that help get them from not understanding this at all, to this point where I want them and lead them through those pieces of content, create these paths, content paths from where you know they’re starting and the question that you know they have whether it’s correct or not”. We do some writing for some medical companies and we see that all the time. They’re not doctors. They don’t know what questions to ask and they can sometimes barely describe what’s even happening with them. But you know that there’s information they need way down the line once they get that rudimentary understanding of what’s going on. And so, you can link from piece to piece to piece to piece and get them to this point where now they’ve reached a greater understanding of it and hopefully along the way they’ve gotten to know our brand, they’ve gotten to know what we do and they’ve decided maybe we can help them.

Kim: Excellent. You mentioned the distinction between strategy and tactics which I thought was very helpful. And you mentioned under the tactics like your blog posts, your whitepapers, your lead magnets. When you do a strategy with someone, do you have a formula or some overall idea of kind of how those different tactics should be? I’m guessing in today’s world we need a little bit of video and we need a little bit of text and we need these different things. How do you approach that when building a strategy for someone?

Adam: Well, from a realistic standpoint, we look at their budget. Content is not cheap to create. But if we had an unlimited budget, it all starts with research. Researching the audience. For us, like a Content Creator who’s helping someone else create content, we’re interviewing them, getting to know them, getting to know their business and their industry. And then using that to say, “Okay. You have these kinds of customers. This is what they’re looking for. This is how often these queries are coming up. This is what they’re doing in search”. How much time even they have? How much they can read? And we’re going to create content based on that. You may very well find that your audience just simply doesn’t have time to read. If you’re structuring some video content around that to fill that gap that’s really short, you can answer that need. So when we go into the creation of personas and so forth, it’s not just where do they live, the age, sex, location and all that kind of interesting activities and opinions. It’s not just that information that’s helpful. But it’s, how do they use content? What did they do with the content? What kind of content is most valuable for them? And then you can use that to kind of structure the strategy and determine which tactics are going to work best.

Kim: So with it having all of that tied into it, how do you go about delegating and automating that Content Creation?

Adam: Well, and again, that’s a very individual thing. It depends on what you have going on. Some people are beasts. They can pour out thousands of words a day, despite having worked 8 hours or 10 hours or whatever. So some people can do that and they don’t need to delegate. And that’s where the individual work style of each business is important. Who you have on your team, who you have access to is important. For instance with us, I know that I’m good at writing certain types of pieces of content. One of my other writers, he’s very good at another type of piece of content. When I can get Heather away from running an entire business, she’s very good at certain types of content. Our designer does certain types. So being able to figure out, it’s just like regular leadership. Who’s best at what? And importantly, how often are they able to reasonably produce whatever the content may be, video, audio, written, otherwise. But someone has to be in charge of all of that. Someone has to be the Puppet Master and pulling all the strings and know what the overall strategy is, but also to implement that strategy and make sure that people are meeting deadlines, that things are going out.

You need an Editorial Calendar so that you can say, “Okay. This, this, this, this, this, this is happening this month. Here’s what we do if this doesn’t happen and here’s why they’re going out”. And Style Guides play into that too very heavily. Is it making sure that all your writers are writing in the voice of the brand the way you want to? Everyone’s individual. There’s some writers that we have where it’s like, “You do what you do because you’re so good at it. You don’t need to worry about any Style Guide”. And then they’re other people who I’m like, “Oh, boy. Okay. You need to follow all these rules”. And then I’m going to look it over. And we’ll probably go back and forth. It really depends on, it’s getting to know yourself, who your writers are and how best to arrange all those things.

Kim: What if you are doing on your own? Would you still recommend having a Style Guide to hold yourself to what you want your voice to be and keep coming back to that?

Adam: Absolutely. Absolutely. These tools are not just for other people. It’s easy especially, I have to imagine, I’ve never owned a business, but I can see a business owner very easily saying, “Well, I’ll just write whatever the hell I want. This is my business”. And that may not always be a good idea. These tools can help you to stay, not just focused, but to stay disciplined in what is the message that we’re trying to create. Why are we trying to create it? Just because today I feel really heavily, that I want to write about shingle roofing doesn’t mean that’s good for my business.

Kim: I love that. I wanted to hear your thought because I’m very much like that. I think have a Style Guide even if you’re solo helps.

Adam: Yeah.

Kim: I know for me it helps me be more conversational. Because I did have a formal background in technical writing I sometimes come across very didactic and it all starts sounding like a College Professor wrote it.

Adam: Yeah.

Kim: And then my audience just goes to sleep at that point.

Adam: Yeah. Absolutely. It can be very helpful to keep yourself on brand.

Kim: Excellent. Thank you so much. Jonathan, I’m going to turn it back over to you.

Jonathan: All right. So, well, we used some buzz words there, didn’t we? Like I said, this wasn’t for the beginner, but also I don’t want to lose a lot of the audience either. So Editorial Calendar and Style Guides. Can you just give a quick couple comments about exactly what they are actually Adam?

Adam: Sure. An Editorial Calendar is just a calendar where you’re keeping track of what content is being published where and when and by whom. It’s really useful for visualizing, I know in my head I need to write 10 blog post articles this month, let’s say. How do I want those to be arranged to make sure I’m not hitting people with the exact same content over and over and over. Because there might be some blog articles that are very similar. The queries that I’m trying to answer there may be similar. So that’s how an Editorial Calendar helps you with that. Really figuring out the content mix I guess you would say. And then, the Style Guide is basically a list of things that our brand does and doesn’t do when writing. So it can be really specific. It can be, we don’t use the. We only use contractions. We never spell out the word it’s or can’t, or stuff like that. But it can also be much broader stuff talking about the brand voice generally. And it can be industry specific too. We would never refer to shingled roofing as. We would call it this. And that’s very useful to remind yourself of what’s on and off the table in terms of writing. But also very very useful when other writers come on to make sure they’re not writing something wacky.

Jonathan: I think that’s great. I’ve got one question before we wrap up the Podcast and we go on to the bonus content which you can watch on the website folks. We’ll be continuing the discussion over the next 15 minutes because I feel we’ve just touched this subject and we have to have Adam back anyway. It’s linked to what we said. It’s getting guests to post on your website. It’s kind of linked to what we were saying about a strategy. So if you’re looking to get guests. If you’re just solely talking about around your specific product or service and how it solves those specific problems, it’s probably going to be hard to get guests because they’re going to be your competitors. So if you can talk about other subjects which are kind of related to your target audience, it’s much easier to get guests. What do you think about that?

Adam: Yeah. So guest bloggers is what you’re kind of talking about guest writers.

Jonathan: Yeah.

Adam: Yeah. I don’t always necessarily agree that just because someone is a competitor that you’re actually like in direct competition with them. They are a lot of businesses, especially like in our space and the Digital Marketing. They’re plenty of businesses where we’re probably not going to be competing for, yes, technically, we are competitors. But we’re probably not actually competing for the same clients week after month after year.

Jonathan: Well, it’s really also the attitude. I’m pretty easy about it.

Adam: Yeah.

Jonathan: I’ve come across some people that have said, “I’m not doing anything with you. This is a big market, but I just don’t work with people that in any shape or form that I’m competing with”. So there’s a kind of the mental feeling around it, isn’t it?

Adam: Yeah. Absolutely. Everyone’s individual in the way they’re, who they’re going to feel comfortable with writing on their website is going to differ from person to person. But a lot of the times the best writers are going to be people who are from tangential industries. We have this writer who writes for use every now and then. They focus solely on SMS Marketing, Text Message Marketing. And that’s something we’re never going to do. We’re never going to even begin to do. But we have very similar customer bases. I’m happy to have this guy come on. And that plays too into my goals for SEO. I need to be building those links. Guest blogging isn’t what it was, but it’s still a good way to connect to other audiences and to get someone on it. Because that’s the other thing to think about is that if you let someone write for you and we’re linking back and forth between websites, some of their traffic is probably going to come over to you and vice versa. So you may actually end up, even though it’s a competitor, you may end up bringing on people who bring traffic over that is ideal that wouldn’t have found you otherwise. It’s a very case by case basis. You have to really kind of be careful with it.

Jonathan: Yeah. We’re going to wrap it up folks. In the bonus content, I’m going to be asking Adam about an interview I saw with Neil Patel when he was discussing some of these topics as well. So that’s how I’m going to be starting the conversation on the bonus content. So do go to the website and listen to the other section of this great conversation. I’m going to quickly ask you Adam how people can find more about you and maybe about what you’re going to be discussing at Dallas this weekend.

Adam: Sure. So this weekend I’m going to do the beginners version of this conversation. So we’ll be doing Content Marketing for beginners and what that means and how to get started. So that’s what we’ll be at DFW WordCamp. I think it’s 4 p.m. on Sunday. But you can find us at There’s an extra E in Steele, bluesteeletx is our Twitter handle and then my website is

Jonathan: All right. That’s great. And Kim, how can people find out more about you Kim?

Kim: You can find me on Twitter @kimshivler or at

Jonathan: Oh, that’s great. And if you need to find more about me, go to my Twitter feed @jonathandenwood. Go to the Facebook page. We are going to be starting a Facebook group. Me and Kim have agreed that and hopefully, the panel will be joining us on that group and we’ll be having more discussions with our listeners. We’ll give you more details in the coming weeks about that. And if you are feeling generous, I do say it, but, we have been getting some reviews as well lately. We’re up to 70 plus I think on iTunes. So if you can leave a review, it really does help the show. And the numbers are going up again and I’m just in a more happier place about where we’re going with the help of my great co-host Kim. So we’ll see you probably on Friday hopefully where we do our Round-Table show. Our Wednesday shows are our interview shows. And I’ve just really enjoyed the conversation so far with Adam. And like I say, go to the website or the YouTube channel and see the extra part of this discussion. We’ll see you next week folks. Bye.


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