651 WP-Tonic - This Week in WordPress & SaaS: Building a Business in the WordPress Ecosystem as a Woman

With Special Guest Stephanie Hudson of Focuswp.co

Hi! I’m Stephanie – a geek, entrepreneur, inventor, craft beer lover, and notebook hoarder. I was fascinated by all things tech even as a kid, taking apart the family computer to see how it all worked.I have freelanced, worked full-time for a micromanager, and run my own successful Web Agency. So, if you are in the web game, chances are I’ve experienced what you’re going through and get it. My current passion is helping freelancers and small agencies scale and thrive.

Intro: Welcome to the WP tonic, WordPress, and SaaS podcast, Jonathan Denwood and his co-host Steven Souder interview. The leading experts in WordPress e-learning and online marketing to help WordPress professionals launch their own SaaS take it away, guys.

Steven Sauder: Welcome back folks to the WP tonic podcast. We have Stephanie Hudson with us today. She is the founder of focus WP. And we are chatting about, building a business in the WordPress ecosystem. Specifically also just as a woman like what does that experience look like? Coming into something that is male-dominated, but building out an amazing company in an amazing niche. Before we dive into, the story behind focus WP and what Stephanie has going on, we’re going to take a quick break and hear from our sponsors.

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Steven Sauder: All right, coming back. We have Stephanie with us. Stephanie, why don’t you introduce yourself? And then Jonathan, I’ll have you introduce yourself. And then we will dive into the show.

Stephanie Hudson: I’m Stephanie Hudson. I am the owner of focus WP. We offer white label outsourced services for agencies and freelancers, and, I’m super happy to be here.

Steven Sauder: Awesome. We’re really excited to have you here. Jonathan, do you want to introduce yourself to the new listeners and viewers?

Jonathan Denwood: Yes folks I’m the founder of WP tonic. We build membership websites for people who want to either do it themselves, or we can build the whole thing out for you, using the power of WordPress over to you, Steven.

Steven Sauder: Perfect. so Stephanie, just to dive in, can you give us just like maybe a little bit of background on focus WP, how you, got into it? Like what the avenue was for you to start to focus WP?

Stephanie Hudson: Yeah, I’ve been, building websites since dial-up internet, which makes me feel super old. I’ve been working in WordPress for gosh, about 10, 12 years now, maybe longer. I don’t know the exact date, but, I’ve always had sort of something, whether it’s been, I’ve been freelancing in web, side hustle while I had another full-time job. I’ve been a full-time web developer. I’ve had a partner, I’ve been a solopreneur. Like I’ve tried all the things. So I get the pain points. I get the pain points that people have. And I met my business partner, Tom Jensen at a word camp. We were conference buddies that I very awkwardly approached because he was by himself and I was by myself and I said, would you like to be my conference buddy? And he was like, I’m sorry, what? And I’m like, can we just hang out during the conference so we’re not by ourselves. And he was like, sure.

And we became like best pals. And we had a great conference and a week after the conference, he sends me a text message and says, Hey, go check your email don’t freak out, just read it. And it was a business plan because we’ve been talking about so many things. And at the time we were talking about maintenance, primarily this was back when care plans were not as common. It was just sort of starting to be a thing that everybody was offering. And a lot of developers hated them. And, I loved them because they were profitable and easy. And so we ended up starting a business to offer those white labels.

As things progressed and our clients loved us and trusted us, they would say like, hey, could you also do this for me? Could you do that for me? So we realized like, there’s this void, there’s this hole in the market where people are trying, like, they’re not quite ready for a full-time hire or they need multiple people to help them. So we kind of became this bridge between working by yourself and hiring a full-time staff. So it’s just sort of grown very organically based on the feedback of our customers and our people.

Steven Sauder: That’s really cool how fast did you get into WordPress?  As you said, you started way back when probably WordPress wasn’t even really a thing or that popular at least. Like where did you start and how did you find WordPress and why did WordPress pull you in?

Stephanie Hudson: This question comes up so much and I cannot remember. I worked with Drupal. I had a full-time job working at, the college of engineering at Georgia tech. I know exactly Jonathan and I rebuilt their site in Drupal and I don’t remember how I came up with that decision– so I learned all of that. And then it was sort of right after that, that I transitioned. So in the early 2010s, like maybe 2012, 2014, something like that, I ended up in WordPress and I was building sites, using templates, and things like that. I’ve never been like a hardcore coder. I’m not really a PHP developer or anything.

I landed on elegant themes because they had so many different templates you could use. And they were all built the same because that was such a learning curve, trying to use all these templates. I love that model. And then divvy came out, which changed everything. And then, so I’ve become kind of a divvy person. I’m on the divvy chat podcast each week and things like that, but I’m not anti any of the builders. I made a conscious decision. Like I fell in love with divvy immediately because it was so useful. And then all the other builders were popping up and I was like, I get shiny object syndrome so bad, but I said, you know what? It takes so much time and so much money to be in each of the ecosystems. I just made a conscious decision. Like, I don’t think one is better than the other. Like, I don’t get into any of those things online where everybody wants to like bash one or the other. I just made my choice and, I can get by in most of them, but that’s just the one that I chose to invest in the ecosystem and be a part of. So

Steven Sauder: that’s cool.

Stephanie Hudson: Did that answer your question? I think I got, you’re going to have to keep me on tracks Steven.

Steven Sauder: No, that’s I love the meandering conversation that’s where you find the good stuff and Interesting stuff. So, this is like a complete tangent, but, since we’re meandering anyways, frontend builder versus backend builder, do you stick primarily to the front end or back end of divvy?

Stephanie Hudson: I am a backend builder kind of girl. When the front-end builder came out, it was a hard shift into that. And then I eventually liked it. And then when they upgraded the backend builder where you could see it visually, I went there and I haven’t looked back.

Steven Sauder: Nice, Cool, Jonathan, over to you.

Jonathan Denwood: Yeah. So you’re into maintenance. So how do you get your leads, Stephanie? Do you do it by nitrifying? Have you found your own community online and you target yourself, or how do you mostly get your lead bucket filled and convert them?

Stephanie Hudson: I do have an online community. I’ve started a Facebook group, which is small, but very engaged. I love it. As I said, it’s unfortunate because my leads, my target audience is my people. Like, these are my people. They’re agency owners, they’re freelancers, they’re digital marketers and creatives. And so I know how to talk to them. I love talking to them, I love hanging out with them. So it’s really awesome, like, I just love it. It makes me so happy because I like helping these folks. And, that’s really it too Facebook– I honestly cannot believe how good Facebook is for business.

Like when you think about Facebook, 15 years ago or 20 years ago, whenever it started, and then even as it grew, and now, even now, if you talk to people who aren’t in our sort of area, a lot of people think it’s, grandma’s sharing photos of their cats or whatever. But my goodness, like when you dive back down into all the groups and the different, like private areas of Facebook, it has been so beneficial for my business. I always tell people whether it’s for work things or other stuff they’re trying to get information on or find their tribe in different ways. I’m like start looking for Facebook groups. And I know there are all kinds of stuff that we could talk about and complain about Facebook, but, I’m not like going down that road, but I’m just saying like, as far as the usefulness of the communities there. 
Jonathan Denwood:
So basically, they’re small agency owners. They’re in divvy, you use divvy, but also they’re your target audience.

Stephanie Hudson: They’re not all divvy folks. Yeah. We do maintenance and all that stuff at focus WP with anything. I have an agency where I’m just, when I build sites, I just use Divvy.

Jonathan Denwood: Yeah. But divvy does appeal to the smaller one to the two-person agency that would be attracted to your outsourcing services, would that not be correct?

Stephanie Hudson: It is Correct. Yeah, but there’s a lot of Elementor users too. We’ve got some really good beaver builder clients. Here’s a question for you guys. What makes somebody an agency? We were just debating this at a conference I was at, last week or a week and a half ago. And we were saying because the word agency is tricky. Because does it mean the size of your team or does it mean the breadth of the services you offer?

Jonathan Denwood: No, I’ve got a very easy answer for that, Stephanie.

Stephanie Hudson: You didn’t know I was going to flip it and ask you questions.

Jonathan Denwood: I’m not surprised Stephanie but I’ve got a very easy answer, Stephanie, all the money that comes in every month just goes to the people that work for you. And there’s no profit for you. 
Stephanie Hudson:
That’s an agency?

Jonathan Denwood: That’s agency.

Steven Sauder: That’s a bleak outlook on agencies there, Jonathan, like you’re talking specifically, like the dividing line between like a freelance contractor and an agency?

Stephanie Hudson: I’ll tell you where this came from. It came from, we’ve been doing some rewriting on our site, and we’re trying to think like just general SEO stuff, audience stuff, what’s going to resonate with our tribe, our people. And it’s like, do you call yourself? Do they call themselves an agency? Do they call themselves a freelancer? Who are we helping? If we say we’re helping agencies, does that alienate people who think, oh, I’m just a little old me? But then there are people who aren’t identifying themselves as a freelancer.

Steven Sauder: Yeah. I think what’s interesting about that word is that there are people who are, a one-person shop doing everything themselves, which is like what a freelancer is, but they’re going to call themselves an agency. I think the agency is an aspirational sort of thing. Like, either you are one or you’re aspiring to it, so you identify with it. Or you are a freelancer and if you are identifying as a freelancer, I have found that most of those people want to stay as freelancers and they love the freelancer. Like it’s more of like a lifestyle sort of definition.

Stephanie Hudson: It’s like how we everybody’s identifying as something or other these days. And it’s kind of like that. Like, I think there’s not really a definition and this is all just sort of new. And again, it was an interesting thing to talk about with other agency owners at this conference, like what is the definition? And I think it’s kind of just like you’re saying, it’s what you identify as like, do you identify as, [Inaudible 13:03] with our pronouns? She, her agency, or whatever. I don’t know.

Steven Sauder: I think the agency has this like, connotation where like, okay, like I called my business an agency when it was just me. Before I had a single employee, I was calling an agency. It was more of like a size thing I wanted people to like, see me as larger because I had aspirations of growing larger. Like it was never just going to be me. And I think that’s why I like grabbed that word and held onto it. Although like by definition, was I an agency? Like, Nah, like more, definitely more freelancer than agency style stuff, but as you grow, that’s what you become because that’s what you’re kind of angling after going after.

Jonathan Denwood:
It’s very understandable in a way, but I think it’s the same thing. What is a developer, there are some people that classify themselves as a developer, the reality, they are high-level implementers. There are designers that do a little bit of front-end coding that probably is more advanced than they think, but they still wouldn’t classify themselves as front-end developer they would say am a designer. It’s so interchangeable all these titles.

Stephanie Hudson:
Yeah, it’s so true that I think our industry has changed and matured and more so fundamentally over just the past decade. I mean, the web is only 30 years old, to begin with. So that’s like, just blows your mind when you think about that, right. That it’s not like it’s such an infancy stage still, but if you think about just the last decade, how much stuff has changed, even just adding on builders, giving folks who really aren’t coders, the ability to make some really complex dynamic sites, there’s a lot to it. And what the terminology is. I did hear a word camp talk about that a couple of years ago where it was like, what is your job title? Like, what do you do? 

A lot of times people ask me what I do, and it depends who asks, of course, but sometimes I just say I make websites. And that’s like because I don’t, I’m not really, I’m not a coder, I’m not really a good designer. I have a team now that’s doing most of the work anyway, at my agency. But it’s like, it’s just such a strange thing that like, it’s so nebulous, what all these different titles are. It’s almost like the terminology hasn’t grown with the industry,

Steven Sauder: Back to, maintenance-type stuff. You said that like the agency use divvy but of course, with, focus WP, you’re using, whatever the client has. Whether a page builder, custom, whatever, how do you manage that? How do you handle that? Like, I feel like it’s hard enough to handle maintenance on sites that you’ve built yourself, but all of a sudden you’re doing maintenance on other people’s sites that they’ve built and helping them keep plugins updated, and making sure the site’s always up and stable. How do you like juggling all of that?

Stephanie Hudson:
I love it It’s so fun. We go through each site when we get, I mean, I do, I’m such a nerd. I love it. Whenever we get a new site, we do a little walkthrough of it. We have a kickoff call, we do a little recording and we check out everything. We make sure everything’s running well. We evaluate if there are premium plugins or not, all those kinds of things. And then, we just have a system. We have a system in place. I built a little mini machine at my agency previously, we use managed WP and we have a couple of other tools for redundancy, I just trained some staff. They weren’t even really developers or anything, but I just trained them. I taught them what the numbers mean on the updates. Like if it’s point this point, this it’s probably okay. If it’s just the big, first number change, then you gotta be careful like we taught them and they’ve been doing it for years now and they’re awesome. And they just log any issues in click up. It gets assigned to a developer right away like the whole thing just runs smooth because we’ve just put the energy into doing the processes and the training and all of that. It’s just like with anything.

Steven Sauder: Well, how do you handle, like, okay, so you update a plugin, there’s an issue on the site. You create that ticket for your developer to look at it. When do you loop your end client back in and say, Hey, here are things that need to happen? We need to like, make some big shifting changes, like handling that kind of like variability, just cause like there’s been most of the time where we’re like updating plugins and it’s just like, well, this crashed everything. Or this doesn’t work. Like this is gonna take a lot of work to get this backup.

Stephanie Hudson: We have a really elegant solution, I think it’s, first of all, a lot of the sites we just update live, but there’s, a tier where you can get them updated on staging, but that’s up to the site owner, our clients, not us. So don’t think we’re being just risky if we just update them live. But if something goes wrong on a site, we will spend up to one hour trying to fix it. If from one hour it’s not fixed, we will make sure it’s back to the most recent secure, like a stable backup. And then we contact the site owner and we give them one of two options. One is you can just wait it out because it’s probably a bug and it’s going to get fixed and it’s not a security risk or two, you got to get a dev on it. Here are our focus on-demand services if you want to use us, we got you.

Steven Sauder: That is elegant that’s very simple and straightforward. It felt like it would be a very complex thing, but, that makes a lot of sense.

Jonathan Denwood: We need to go for a break Steven.

Steven Sauder: Oh, break, break time. All right.

Stephanie Hudson: smoke them if you’ve got them, everybody

Steven Sauder: Now is your chance. We’re going to hear it for our sponsors really quick and, we’ll be back. And dive into more questions and hear more about Stephanie’s experience with WordPress and building the company, be back in just a moment.

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Steven Sauder: All right. Coming back. If it’s okay with you, Stephanie, I kind of want to dive into this like being so early in the web.

Jonathan Denwood: Finish up so I could ask a question, Steven. So, as a woman in WordPress, reflecting back have there been any particular challenges you feel that you’ve had to face and overcome as being a woman in the WordPress community?

Stephanie Hudson: Honestly, I think it’s an advantage. I think there are industries out there that are male-dominated that make it very difficult for a woman. Personally, I have never felt discriminated against or judged or anything. However, I’m not really a pushover. I’m not the kind of girl that gets pushed around too much. I usually got something to say and I’m going to say it. but no, honestly I think, I have some advantages, hashtag blessed, whatever I’m gregarious, I’m not shy and I’m not afraid to put myself out there. 

And I think when there are so many white males if you can come on the scene, I mean, I’m obviously white as well, but if I can, there’s a difference, right? I’m a girl, I’m a big, giant redhead. Nobody can tell them a giant anymore because everything’s on, we’re all sitting down on screens, but I’m five foot 10, like when I’m in a room, like, and I wear heels. So like I’m a big, giant redhead like you stand out and what are we all trying to do is to differentiate and stand out. And so for me, that makes it kind of an advantage really. And I’ve never been one of those. Like you’re a woman business. No, I’m a business owner. Like, I don’t know. I just, I feel like we all need, like I feel like if I start talking about being a woman, then that is alienated like I’m putting myself in a separate bucket and that’s not my aim. That’s not my personal struggle either though. So I don’t judge other people for doing it, but that’s not. 
Jonathan Denwood:
Well, at least this broadens it out a little bit. Have you ever felt ever suffered from imposter syndrome?

Stephanie Hudson: Always, right now any minute you guys are gonna figure out it’s just me sitting here embarrassing.

Jonathan Denwood: I was going to say have you got any advice or insights around how you’ve dealt with that?

Stephanie Hudson: I do. There is an element of fake it till you make it. And I think that doesn’t work in every situation, but if you’re an entrepreneur, if you are a web geek, those things make, those are two things that certain kinds of people do. We figure stuff out. We figure out how to solve problems. We figure out how to do things. There’s not a lot that comes at us that we are just, we just give up. No, we dig and we figure stuff out. So, to me, that’s the same way with feeling like an imposter. Maybe if somebody brings a site to you that you don’t feel like you can handle, what are you going to do? You’re going to say like, I’m going to figure this out and you might lose money on that project. Or you might, whatever it is. or if you’re going into, a podcast episode or an interview or a talk at a conference or anything like that, you might feel like I don’t really, but we just figure stuff out. That’s how we’re built in this industry. Like our people are that way.

So you just have to go dive in headfirst. You gotta just force yourself to do it. And it’s a little uncomfortable, but man, once you do it, once you get on that stage and you talk about something that you felt uncomfortable about doing, and you get positive feedback later, or people that give you good, a good response or congratulate you. There’s no better feeling than that. Whenever you conquer that fear and you conquer those gaps in your knowledge or your experience, I love that. 
Steven Sauder:
Yeah. That’s always a huge, rush. When you do something that you thought was impossible or thought was going to be scary and terrible, then it ends up like, working out like most things do, but you can build it up in such a thing in your head. 

Stephanie Hudson:
Right. And like I talk to agency owners a lot and stuff, so they can smell the BS a mile away. Cause it’s the same industry. But if you’re talking to, especially people who are working with business owners that aren’t in our industry. Even if you are not a master of all things in web development or in your builder of choice or in business or whatever, like guaranteed, you know more than the people that you’re talking to. They also probably are going to ask you to help them fix their printer and stuff like that too because we are those kinds of folks. We figure stuff out. I know printers are the worst. 
Jonathan Denwood:
I’m just not dealing with that.

Stephanie Hudson: It’s tech support always goes in with web doesn’t it for some reason, I don’t.

Jonathan Denwood: No not with me anymore.

Steven Sauder: What, are your thoughts? being in the maintenance space and WordPress is growing and expanding rapidly, like the number of page builders we have now versus where we were four years ago. Like it’s just increasing and it feels like things are getting, I don’t know, easier, but also like so much more complex all at the same time. Do you feel that way too, like dealing with all these sites or, as WordPress is becoming more mature, and the players are a little bit bigger? Are you seeing increased stability and simplicity in the WordPress ecosystem?

Stephanie Hudson: It almost feels like, they take turns ruining our day. Divvy will have 50 updates in a month all of a sudden and a bunch of stuff breaks. Elementor it was just a couple of months ago where everything crashed on Elementor sites, all that kind of stuff. But we keep up with what’s going on. We keep up with all the trends with all the news that’s happening. We watch out for any kind of vulnerabilities. We have a little newsletter that goes out our watch out Wednesday newsletter with like what people need to be on the lookout for. And I mean, really that’s it.

When this is what we do like you’re just in it all the time. So we just master it. We just make it, our business to know what’s coming down the pipe and we deal with it. And then we have also like all the other on-demand services too, where we’re building sites for people and working actively on their sites and that takes even more diverse knowledge and a more diverse team. And so we are starting to implement some educational resources and stuff for our team so that we can keep them really up to date and cross-trained on multiple builders and things like that. So that we have lots of redundancies.

Steven Sauder: How big a team is you guys now?

Stephanie Hudson: I think we have, 18.

Steven Sauder: Oh, wow. That is a good size team to try to keep everybody in sync.

Stephanie Hudson: We’ve got developers, designers, copywriters, video editors, and VAs. So that’s a lot of folks.

Steven Sauder: Yeah. There are a lot of folks. That’s awesome.

Stephanie Hudson: We got [Inaudible 28:55 ] like for devs and stuff, especially so as we increase, then we just bring on our new folks.

Steven Sauder: That’s awesome, is there ever a site that you won’t touch? Are there like sites that you’re like, no, like this site is beyond like we can’t do maintenance for this site? It’s too something. Or will you guys pretty much roll up your sleeves and dig into anything?

Stephanie Hudson: I haven’t yet. I can see there could be a scenario if something is just very, very custom and it’s, non-stop breakage, I mean, we have that rule of like, we’ll spend an hour trying to repair it, but if like, if it’s so cobbled together with like a bunch of custom bits and pieces that it breaks every single week like that’s not going to end up being a profitable customer for us. But also I don’t really just say like, no, we’re not going to do that. I would go to them and say, here’s my advice. Because that’s not a good situation for the agency and that’s not a good situation for the end-user either. Like nobody is winning. If it’s a site that we struggle to maintain or working on. Like it’s not a good site, so it needs to be rebuilt or updated. So I would go to them with a proposed solution. And of course, that isn’t always possible.

Steven Sauder: Yeah, no, that makes sense. Jonathan, any questions before heading into bonus content here pretty soon?

Jonathan Denwood: No, I think we better wrap it up and go into bonus content. Steve.

Steven Sauder: Well, thanks guys for tuning in and listening. We’re going to be going into bonus content here, but you can see the show notes and, tune in for bonus content on the WP-Tonic YouTube page and the Facebook page. So make sure to check that out. See everybody. Oh. But before we go Stephanie, how can people find out more about you and what you do?

Stephanie Hudson: You can check out our website focusWP.co be warned it’s in 3d. I don’t know why I got this obsession with like 3d glasses and stuff, but there’s a form on the site if you sign up for the newsletter or just fill in the form, I’ll mail you a pair of 3d glasses. Like I’ll send you a little note and mail you a pair of 3d glasses.

Steven Sauder: Is it those awesome old school, like a cardboard cutout, blue, red? Oh man, that is just.
Stephanie Hudson: I got a whole stack of them right here.

Steven Sauder: No way. That’s epic.

Jonathan Denwood: I think there’s a lot of people who would like me to wear those all the time. Certain people in the WordPress community Sorry.

Stephanie Hudson: Oh, and you can join me in my Facebook group. Focus on your biz. B I Z. 

Steven Sauder: All right. Jonathan. How can people find out more about you and what you do?

Jonathan Denwood: Oh, just go to the WP tonic website. And if you want some recommendations on plugins for whatever you’re doing, just go to WP-Tonic/recommendations. And we’ve got a whole list thereof plugins and services that the WP tribe recommends.

Stephanie Hudson: Did you also know that I am going to be on the WP tonic podcast tomorrow?

Steven Sauder: Double feature man. Truly blessed,

Stephanie Hudson: Right?

Steven Sauder: It doesn’t get better than that. Alright. Well, thanks for tuning in everybody. Catch Stephanie tomorrow on the, WP tonic podcast again. And we’ll move into bonus content.

Stephanie Hudson: Thanks, everybody.

Steven Sauder: Bye. 

Outro: Thanks for listening to the WP-Tonic podcast. The podcast that gives you a dose of WordPress medicine twice a week.

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