Don’t Start A Skool Community Until You Watch Read This

The main problem with Skool is that it has become “Drifter Central” for every online con-artist on the internet

In this eye-opening video, we delve into the troubling issue of Skool becoming a hub for online con artists. We explore the tactics these self-proclaimed gurus use to exploit unsuspecting users, as well as the broader implications for the online learning community. If you’re navigating Skool or considering joining, this video is a must-watch to stay informed and protect yourself.

These are the hosts of the show, Jonathan Denwood & Kurt von Ahnen

Skool was founded in 2019 by Sam Ovens (CEO) and Daniel Kang (CTO). Ovens is a prominent entrepreneur and former founder of Consulting.com, who created Skool to provide an all-in-one platform for hosting online communities and courses

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The Show’s Main Transcript

[00:00:17.020] – Jonathan Denwood

Welcome back, folks, to the Membership Machine Show. This is episode 176. In this episode, we’re going to be discussing Don’t start a school community until you watch this video. That was the title of the episode. We’re going to be talking about all things Skool, why I wouldn’t use it personally myself. I’m biased. I like WordPress. So does my co-host Kurt, but we’re going to give you our honest opinion. And the reason I wouldn’t utilize Skool is slightly different to other platforms. Um, but I’m going to allow my co-host to introduce himself before we go into the details of the show. So Kurt, first, would you like to introduce yourself to listeners, listeners and viewers?

[00:01:06.800] – Kurt von Ahnen

Sure thing, Jonathan. My name is Kurt von Ahnen. I am the owner of an agency called Mañana No Más, and we do a lot of work directly with WP-Tonic. Hey, running a business is tough. You shouldn’t have to worry about your website too. With Kinsta’s managed hosting for WordPress, you get lightning-fast load times, enterprise-grade security, and 24/7 expert support from real humans. Switch to Kinsta and see site speeds improve by up to 200% with effortless migrations and powerful, easy-to-use dashboard. Join over 120,000 other businesses who also trust Kinsta. Get your first month for free at kinsta.com. That’s K-I-N-S-T-A.com.

[00:01:49.770] – Jonathan Denwood

Let’s go straight into it. So Skool has been quite successful. It was started by, um, Sam Ovens and Daniel Cain, who was the CTO, and they got Alex Umosi as an investor, a substantial investor in it. And one of the main reasons I wouldn’t use it is that I feel, I think it’s become Drifter central of all the online courses from all sorts of people that I really don’t like very much. So if I was trying to build a course and for it to have real legs and for it to be a real business. I wouldn’t build it on this platform. So what’s, what’s your initial thoughts about this, Curt?

[00:02:49.130] – Kurt von Ahnen

Whenever we dive into I would use, I wouldn’t use, you know, have those conversations, especially in the e-learning space, which I consider school to be a part of. I maybe take a different avenue than some. I actually use it. So I did a sample course in school. I, I signed up, I paid the money, I loaded my content in, and then I saddled up for the ride. And I got to tell you, Jonathan, uh, it’s not a platform I would recommend at a professional level either.

[00:03:23.030] – Jonathan Denwood

Right. And what are some of the reasons why you wouldn’t recommend it, Kurt?

[00:03:29.140] – Kurt von Ahnen

Well, I think— and again, I just need to be really transparent and honest here— do I spend 30, 40, 50 hours? Do I buy ads? Do I try to make these, these projects successful, you know, against heck and high water? No. I mean, I’m sampling out the platform. So I bought— I bought access, I loaded up my course, and then let’s see what happens, right? I made a couple of social media posts. Hey, this course is up. If anyone’s interested, here we go. The course was actually pretty good. Only had one person sign up right away. And then Over the course of about 60 days, 4 or 5 more people signed up. Uh, so complete failure, not complete failure, but, but here’s my thing. You and I had mentioned this in one of our shows before. They have what we would call a marketplace, right? They make referrals. They have— it becomes a community of course creators. Well, when we take a client and we put them into a WordPress project, it’s their project. When you take somebody and you put them into school, they become part of a conglomerate of projects, and there’s no focus on them, or no focus on you within your— that platform.

[00:04:46.310] – Kurt von Ahnen

When you, when you sign up for that, you are, uh, you’re just a mass of— you’re just in a mass of nonsense. And only by sheer luck, ability, or by someone else promoting you are you going to get a spotlight within that soup Yes, right.

[00:05:03.470] – Jonathan Denwood

Yeah, um, that’s true. But, um, I was influenced, and I shared it with Kirk, I was influenced by a video by a guy called Brock McGolf. Um, the video will be in the show notes, folks. And he did a video, and these are only my personal opinions, but I really agree with Brock. Um, I just consider I I haven’t got an enormous amount of time for Alex McCoat, Alex, but I really don’t have any time for Sam Ovens. You know, um, he made a lot of money with consultant.com. Um, he used— he was the one first to use a video landing page funnel, um, and he was highly successful. But he was, um, I don’t think a lot of the people that bought his courses were so successful, and in my opinion, and he made an enormous amount of money. Um, but if that’s your only judge about what somebody’s doing, I think you’re going to be fine with it. But I, I think there’s a whole breed of these type of drifters that have been selling marketing courses to, to people who are a little bit— I was going to use the word naive, but maybe a bit down on their luck, maybe a bit lost.

[00:06:39.460] – Jonathan Denwood

And I just think, well, we all can be a little bit down on our luck, you know. That’s what— when we find out who had real friends are. Some of us don’t have friends, you know, but most of us do. Um, but, um, I think these people are really, um, I think, you know, there’s some notorious ones on my list, isn’t there, which I shared with you. Um, Ted Lopez, you know, is a notorious, in my opinion. Well, he’s facing legal problems. A number of these people Dan Lok, Andrew Tate, a lot of these crowds. And unfortunately, in my opinion, school identifies too much with this crowd.

[00:07:27.500] – Kurt von Ahnen

But it’s so frustrating because, Jonathan, you and I both work in an IT space with product. And so it’s interesting to me because we’ve talked about Mighty Networks, we’ve talked about Circle, we’ve talked about Kajabi, we’ve talked about Podia, we’ve talked about all these things, right? And of course, our beloved WordPress. Press. Um, and then think about like Facebook groups, right? Like, do these predators, do these drifters, do they exist in these other platforms? Yes. Like, Facebook can be a horrible place to— if you get into the wrong channels, boy, you can— you know, I think about, you know, Funnelitics and how Funnelitics for, for a time there was like every drifter in the world was trying to say, you know, join my Funnelitics group and I’ll show you how to make a million dollars in 90 days, right? And it’s like No, that’s just not— I don’t know how people fall for that time and time again, but that seems to be what people fall for time and time again. It’s like the video that we reviewed last week, you know, that Omar was saying, you know, let me show you how you make $1 million doing this.

[00:08:27.470] – Kurt von Ahnen

And it’s like, that’s what— that is not the way to do it. Like, I just can’t— I can’t reach people hard enough on this for some reason. You’re right, Jonathan. School has attracted a ton of these people. And there’s some really great people in there making really good content and really trying to put their best effort forward. And I think they’re people that don’t have the ability or the wherewithal to create their own channel somewhere, their own website. They don’t have the knowledge that you and I have in the WordPress space and they want, they need to put it somewhere. And Kajabi at the time was like $200 a month or $220 a month or $240 a month. And Skool came out with that $9.99 plan. $9.99. And once they made it a $10 a month thing, a lot of people just clamored to it and it got overly popular with a lot of people that shouldn’t be in the space.

[00:09:23.750] – Jonathan Denwood

Yeah, I totally agree what you’re saying. You know, I think there’s some genuine people on Skool, a lot of genuine people. But I also think there’s a, you know, the founder one of the joint founders, Alex, as well. Um, I oscillate between that, about Alex really, because, um, I think a lot of his content is very benign. It’s very evergreen by choice. Um, he’s publicly said him and his team produce about 160 pieces of material every week, um, on all channels. Um, good luck to him. The other thing, which is probably because I’m English, British, um, is multi-level marketing. See, in the, in the UK and in a number of European countries Multi-level marketing is illegal. It’s in the UK. It’s— if you’re caught doing it, it’s a criminal offense. It’s not civil, it’s criminal. And you can face severe consequences depending on the size of the multi-level marketing that if you’re found guilty of it. Where in the US it’s not illegal, is it? Um, I personally wouldn’t touch it with a barge pole. Um, I don’t— I, I see all multi-level marketing businesses and just drifter schemes, and I think any experienced business person would just walk away from it straight away.

[00:11:21.270] – Jonathan Denwood

But a lot of these people that are on Skool, they also— not all of them, but some of the biggest ones— they’re from the world of multi-level marketing as well, in my opinion. What do you think about that, Kurt?

[00:11:37.040] – Kurt von Ahnen

Well, you and I have a different opinion of multi-level marketing, probably because of our backgrounds. I happen to personally know abs— like, actual millionaires from the multi-level marketing space. Some of it I really valued, like some of the business advice, some of the leadership training. Some of the, some of the stuff was really great quality. In fact, um, that’s how I got to know John Maxwell way back in the day. Now everyone knows John Maxwell is this famous leadership author and the John Maxwell Team, of which I’m a member. Um, but I originally met John Maxwell at a multi-level marketing meeting. Um, and so it’s interesting. Now, was it for me? No, it wasn’t for me, because what I found was it wasn’t like they always say, buy it wholesale, sell at retail, right? You’re part of the group, you’re in the know, you’re going to buy it wholesale, sell at retail. And I found that what was really happening was you’re buying at retail and they expect you to sell this product at retail plus, which never happens. So then you just end up being a prosumer and then everybody’s buying wholesale. And I think the only people making the money are the people at the top, which is the pyramid you’re talking about.

[00:12:40.820] – Kurt von Ahnen

But I got to know some of the people at the top and I didn’t find them to be extremely crooked. It was a business model and I found a lot of people actually did make money with it that actually did the work. See, I think the problem with some of these, Jonathan, and it’s— and we see it at our level too. So, so I think we have to be careful how we phrase things. So many people are hearing like they want, they want that passive income. They want to be able to do something once and have it give them money forever. And multi-level marketing was like a similar message. It was like, you know, hit your friends and family, build your network, and then just count your money every month when people go shopping with your products. And it’s like, that’s not real. Like, that’s not a real expectation. Just like creating a course and never having to touch it again is not a real expectation. Um, I really struggle with that messaging, and, and I see it more and more. Uh, I’m not seeing it as much as I used to. I remember just half a year ago we were getting messages bombarded on us about, you know, have a mobile application, no one wants a website anymore, get a mobile app and make 50 grand a week.

[00:13:45.750] – Kurt von Ahnen

And I was like, They said, if you don’t make $50 grand a week, you don’t even have a business. And I was like, that is crazy talk. And if anyone listens to that and swipes a credit card and buys into that program, they’re a willing victim, you know. And it’s— and it’s— we just see a lot of this. These, for some reason, we’re here to talk about, you know, the, the video by Brock, by the way, I thought was amazing. That, that was right on point.

[00:14:08.270] – Jonathan Denwood

But I thought— and he’s highly successful. He built— he has built up a couple of successful online businesses. His main YouTube channel is about men’s clothing. He’s got over, I think, over half a million subscribers. He’s— he makes revenue from YouTube, he makes revenue from, um, from, um, sponsorships, other things. He’s a legit online— there’s legit online businesses.

[00:14:40.010] – Speaker 1

Yeah.

[00:14:40.490] – Kurt von Ahnen

And he got real brave at the end and mentioned a bunch of names. And I thought, you know, if anything, I earned more respect for him in that moment. What was interesting was YouTube sent me that video before you did. So obviously something’s— something is in alignment, right, with, with the feed for me. But, you know, he called out Grant Cardone, Robert Kiyosaki, um, Hustlers University, which I think is just funny in itself that people join that. But it’s, it’s— they do. People join that. And you and I see that in our I’m super active on LinkedIn and I know that you’re active as well. But, you know, my LinkedIn is full of these, you know, copy and paste, you know, if I could get you 15 qualified leads a week, would you, you know, with no payment required, would we— shut up, stop, stop emailing me, stop messaging me. And this—

[00:15:33.120] – Jonathan Denwood

I just get a ton of that email. Yeah, these people and they’re from these courses, but we’re going to finish off and then in the second half of— we’re going to talk about some of the other platforms that I feel you would be better off using rather than Skool. I’m being honest here. It’s just that I’m, you know, it’s not that I’m selling an alternative. If I wasn’t, I’d feel the same. I just think Skool— there’s other things about Skool which I don’t like, which is about the business model. But it’s just the culture and it’s just the background of the founders. Um, when it comes to Alex Umosi, um, I, I obviously— this is a spectrum of driftiness. Um, there’s some real— on this list there’s some real drifters, and I would put Alex on the lower end, but unfortunately he chose to um, work with other people that got fleas, and the fleas jump, don’t they? Uh, um, and I really haven’t got much time for Sam Robbins. I just really haven’t got time of day with the guy. And, um, well, a lot of other people on this list, you know, uh, Grant, I, you know, you’ve actually got a bit more time for him than me.

[00:17:06.510] – Jonathan Denwood

I’ve got absolutely no time for Grant and his twin brother and how he, in my opinion, how he’s avoided prison is quite amazing. But, um, probably knows the right people, in my opinion. Um, but I think we have— I think I’ve made my views clear. So we’re going to go for our mid-break, folks, and when we come back, we’re going to look at some of the alternatives. We will be back in a few moments.

[00:17:37.340] – Speaker 1

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[00:18:14.140] – Jonathan Denwood

We’re coming back, folks. When I point out, if you’re looking at using WordPress and you’re looking for a great host, have a look at what WP-Tonic offers. We offer great hosting on membership and community websites. Running on Fluent Community or BuddyBoss. Plus we have some great plugin packages and we set everything up for you. We make it easy. So let’s go and look at some of the alternatives. Um, well, WordPress, um, Fluent Community. I just think if you’re looking to do something very similar to what you’re looking to do on school is a natural, really. What do you reckon?

[00:19:04.640] – Kurt von Ahnen

Well, it’s better than a natural, Jonathan. And here’s specifically why. Again, I’m somebody that’s got— I’ve got a Udemy course, I’ve got a school course. I’ve got, you know, I’ve got these things spread out. Udemy and school both create an inordinate amount of spam and just nonsense. Like, everyone’s trying to tell you how to, you know, let me help you increase the sales of your course, you know, boom boom boom. It just never stops with the direct messaging, the spam, the nonsense. If you use Fluent Community, you get a very simple course tool. You get a very simple, uh, course edition tool, and it operates in a very similar way to School. It really does. Um, however, if you have Fluent Community in your own WordPress site, you don’t have the noise and the garbage coming in from other channels like you do within Udemy or within, uh, school. It’s, it’s all very focused. It’s your, it’s your own site. So you get the benefit of simple design, you get the benefit of community. People can message each other, they can, they can have a news feed, they can have a profile, they can do all these things.

[00:20:16.410] – Kurt von Ahnen

Uh, and you’ve got more freedom and flexibility in the actual design and look, the user experience within your own website. Whereas within school, you’ve only got two choices, light mode or dark mode. That’s it.

[00:20:28.580] – Speaker 1

Right.

[00:20:28.860] – Kurt von Ahnen

So, um, when you say Fluent Community compared to school, uh, they are close in operation, but very different in application. And I think that, uh, Fluent Community is a much better choice.

[00:20:44.930] – Jonathan Denwood

Yeah, the thing is you’ve got to get a decent host, you’ve got to have WordPress and you’ve got to have a page builder. But I still like Kadence, still like GeneratePress, still like Astra. There’s no shortage, there’s about 3 or 4 page builders that you can choose from and you can be up and running. And there’s about 4 or 5 plugins you probably need. And, um, you can get something up and running pretty quick. Um, if you host with WP-Tonic, you get everything set up for you, so you’re up and running a lot quicker. Um, next one, I think if you’re not looking at WordPress, you’re probably going to be looking at Circle, or you’re going to look at Mighty Networks, aren’t you? Um, if you were looking at Mighty Networks or Circle, which one would you go for?

[00:21:38.180] – Kurt von Ahnen

Well, I’m going to shock you, Jonathan, because I’ve said I don’t like Circle publicly on the show before, um, but I like it better than Mighty Networks. So, so I would probably pick the Circle. Um, simplicity in UX, simplicity in the user experience. Um, to me it’s overly simple. Uh, I’m part of a couple of Circle groups online for this different software packages I use and things like that, and whenever I have to go in there. It’s almost to me like using Slack. Sometimes I struggle in finding the discussions I’m looking for or the exact content I’m looking for. And I want things to be more straightforward than that. But it is very simple in design and some people might find that attractive.

[00:22:26.200] – Jonathan Denwood

But you would say in usability terms that Fluent Communities is better?

[00:22:31.240] – Kurt von Ahnen

Oh, 100%. 100%. Because remember this also, Jonathan, if I have Fluent Community in a WordPress website, I can make the community page the homepage, right? I could say, okay, anyone that signs into the website, you’re just gonna get dumped on the community page. Boom. You could do that. But with WordPress, it’s extremely flexible. So you could have a homepage and about us page, a contact page, and a community link that links to the community. And so you have the flexibility and the scalability to really make that website do whatever you want it to do over time. Whereas if you’re locked into like Circle, you’d have to integrate it into a WordPress example or into something else and build more pages.

[00:23:13.240] – Jonathan Denwood

I think things have changed there actually. Yeah.

[00:23:16.190] – Kurt von Ahnen

Circle’s added, Circle’s added stuff, but it’s still not pretty on the inside.

[00:23:21.540] – Jonathan Denwood

Oh, right. And compared Circle compared to Mighty Network. You think Mighty Network is the worst of those two based on your experience?

[00:23:31.560] – Kurt von Ahnen

Yeah, and I should probably be fair to Mighty Network in this case. I could probably use a refresher tour of Mighty Networks. I don’t know what they’ve updated in the last year, 18 months. Um, and for people that are like really focused, that say I have to have a mobile application, Mighty Networks gives you the option to develop in that way if you’ve got the budget funding. So maybe in that instance you would say, okay, Mighty Networks is my gig. But I think— and Jonathan, that just walks us backwards. If you’re saying, okay, I have the budget, I have money and I have the ability, then you wouldn’t be looking at those tools. You’d be developing something.

[00:24:08.050] – Jonathan Denwood

I’m just saying, Circle, they both can provide— they both provide apps that were at a reasonable price, but they will have their marketing all over them. If you want white label, both I caught, you know, want a fair bit of change for that. Tens of thousands. Yeah. 15,000, whatever. Um, I actually think if you’re not going to Facebook groups, um, or Descript or something, I think Fluent Community, funny enough, is the best solution at the present moment because it’s easy to use. It’s easy to set up. Um, especially if you use a specialist like WP-Tonic. Um, you can be up and running really quickly, um, and it’s under your control over your brand and your— and you’re avoiding being connected to school and the drifter class, as I call it. Yeah, which is considerable. And it’s the one of the main reasons what I don’t like in pure marketing. I think Alex and Sam are fantastic marketers, but it’s all the rest of their package that you’re going to have to stomach if you go on their platform. And I just think it’s getting worse and worse. You know, that’s why I use the term scammer drift essential.

[00:25:42.570] – Jonathan Denwood

Um, because I think it’s getting worse and worse on their platform.

[00:25:46.360] – Kurt von Ahnen

Well, it’s just really difficult because as a platform like that finds success and so, and, you know, I’m lumping this in with Udemy in the same regard when they find that success, when people grow, because it’s it to me, it’s almost like it’s almost like you signed up in a course marketplace in a WordPress multi-site, you know, that has a directory of other sites within it. It’s just now you are in a group of people and you’re all selling courses and you’re all referring people back and forth. And that marketplace environment just creates that, that drifter mentality when it scales and it attracts the wrong kind of people.

[00:26:27.150] – Jonathan Denwood

Yeah. Yep. I think we can, we can close down this episode now. I think we covered some of the main alternatives. I think you have. And I’ve made my views, my personal views.

[00:26:40.560] – Kurt von Ahnen

I think we missed a big one.

[00:26:42.540] – Jonathan Denwood

Oh, go on. Sorry.

[00:26:43.750] – Kurt von Ahnen

I just, I just think it depends on if the community part of it is the big draw. Like if you want school because you want to grow the community and have a course, I get it. Fluent Community, because Fluent Community can also host the course. That, that makes perfect sense. But there’s also, you know, WP-Tonic is also very active with LifterLMS that has social learning. So if your focus was more on the course, and the learning material and the social part was secondary, then I would use LifterLMS with social learning because then it gives each member in each course group its own discussion channel, which is really cool. And then of course CreatorLMS is one of the new ones that’s out there. And I believe WP-Tonic can also do CreatorLMS, which also has social features and courses. And so I didn’t want the show to end and not cover like there’s options. I think the best thing to do is if you’re in this space is probably schedule an appointment with Jonathan, have the conversation and figure out what WP-Tonic could host for you.

[00:27:45.580] – Jonathan Denwood

Yeah, either be me or Kurt. Well, it’s a difficult one. I— thanks for— thanks for pointing that out. The reason why I wasn’t is that I was trying to keep things as simple as possible. And it’s a difficult one. They’re all great solutions on the WordPress platform, folks. But people tend to overcomplicate things. Um, and they blame WordPress for that, but you got a lot of options, but just keep it simple. Um, but on the other hand, what Kirk said, you got a lot of options, which, um, I think, I think really people get into the world of school because of the price and because there’s a tremendous number of influencers that, um, unfortunately WordPress isn’t seen in the influencer world as a clear platform. A lot of that is to do with affiliate marketing and just how things work at the present moment. But like I say, WordPress has got a lot to offer. So Kirk, what’s the best way for people to find out more about you?

[00:29:00.230] – Kurt von Ahnen

Well, I’m available on LinkedIn. I’m the only Kirk Fonnon in there, so I’m easy to find. And then for business, Mañana No Más.

[00:29:08.070] – Jonathan Denwood

That’s fantastic. And like I say, what Kirk said, if you go to the WP-Tonic website, see what we offer in our hosting and packaging, and you can book a quick consultation totally free with either me or Kirk, and we’ll get you up and running on WordPress and you can build your business and you can get away from school. We will be back next week with a great insightful topic. We’ll see you soon, folks. Bye.

[00:29:33.490] – Speaker 1

Thanks for listening to the Membership Machine Show. Make sure you subscribe so you don’t miss any future episodes and leave a rating to support the show. Until next time.

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