The Membership Machine Show – Jonathan Denwood and Spencer Forman – for advice, tips, and insight on planning, running, and growing a successful membership website, plus what is the best technology solutions from WordPress and SaaS, plus interviews with membership industry experts.
This Week Show’s Sponsors
Sensei LMS: Sensei LMS
Best WordPress Event Plugins for Better Event Management in 2023
#1 – Modern Events Calendar
Indian coding shop got in a bit of trouble with WordPress org.
Prices Pro – 1- site – $78
#2 – Events Manager
One person coding shop Marcus Sykes, my experience of this plugin, it has some nice clean code but to get the most out of this plugin, you need to be a developer.
Prices Pro – 1- site – $89
#3 – WP Event Manager.
I was pretty impressed with this plugin and team Indian coding shop that has a number of add-ons, including one that works with Zoho; unfortunately, I’ve also had some frustration with this plugin being a short-code nightmare
Prices Pro – 1- site – $99
#4 – Amelia
Swiss army knife of an event and booking plugins.
Prices Pro – 1- site – $64
#5 – Event Espresso
Garth Koyle joint fonder One of the oldest event WordPress plugins with a load of add-ons; however, I have had some real frustration connected to being a short-code nightmare.
Prices Pro – 1- site – $99.95
#6 – Event Calendar WD From 10up
Prices – 1- site – $85 six months support
#7 – EventOn
Prices – 1- site – $25
#8 – The Events Calendar
[00:00:03.850] – Intro
Welcome to the Membership Machine Show, talking you through your membership website from initial idea all the way to finished product. Here’s your host, Jonathan Denwood.
[00:00:16.050] – Jonathan Denwood
Welcome back, folks to the membership machine show this is episode eight. We recall this every Friday at around 830 Pacific Standard Time. Please join us live. If you’ve got any questions or you need any help with any kind of membership website. We will try and answer the questions during the show. And like I say, you can join us on the WP Tonic YouTube channel or join the Membership Machine Shows Facebook Group and then you will be able to give us questions live. Please consider that. So in this specific episode we are going to look at specifically WordPress. But event calendars is the important part if you’re running a membership website that you probably have going to have events and you’re going to need a way to display them. I’ve got my great co host with me who puts up with me every Friday. Don’t know how he does it, but he does. We’ve got Spencer with us. So Spencer, would you like to introduce yourself to the listeners and viewers?
[00:01:39.550] – Spencer Forman
It would be my pleasure. This is Spence from spencerforman.com forman.com. That’s my new hub. So it leads to all the other things I’m involved with, including WP launchify. And I’m also on social media, Twitter, LinkedIn and so forth at Spencer Foreman as well. And I’m just tweeting out that the show is live as I do every week.
[00:02:02.950] – Jonathan Denwood
That’s great, I should do that, but I’m borrowed from Twitter. There we are. Spencer, you suggested this topic and I thought it was an excellent one. And do you want to give a brief outline what you see as the general landscape before we go into Pacific Solutions, around displaying and booking events on your WordPress Web membership website in the end of 2022?
[00:02:41.330] – Spencer Forman
Sure. Let’s approach it from two standpoints. First of all, there’s a couple of plugins, or I should say I prefer to say features that you can have in a WordPress stack that sound alike until you really dig in and then they’re really quite different. And then second of all, I want to talk about the notion of using features and building a solution rather than kind of willy nilly banging things together. So first of all, there are specific features that are for events versus bookings. What’s the difference? Well, events are things that tend to be more performance in nature or tend to be more scheduled in nature where many people come to a particular thing, an event, a concert, a show, a live webinar, a Word camp, those are events. Bookings tend to be very one on one individualistic. They tend to be things that could range from personal services like a massage therapist has a booking for an hour massage. Or it could be you are booking a hotel room or airbnb for yourself and your family. So if you think of it in those terms. Today we’re going to talk about events as a feature whereas in another show we’re going to talk about bookings because they actually are so unique that there are specialty components that work better for one versus the other and there’s a few that overlap but not necessarily all in one.
[00:04:08.370] – Spencer Forman
And then the second thing is I think we should mention upfront, like we’ve been doing in all these shows, that WordPress as a service is the future, in my opinion, where instead of thinking of all the individual plugins, and services as we’re talking about. Think of it more like what provides the feature you need inside of your comprehensive WordPress as a solution. And in this case it’s important to recognize that we don’t, or at least I don’t on a regular basis encourage things that are all in one. And instead what we encourage is just the thing that does that one feature the best is oftentimes a better solution and it works with the other components like automation or ecommerce or subscriptions and so forth. So you’re going to hear me referring to that quite a bit and it really could never be more true than here because some of these features are really great for the one thing they do and then they start to get really dicey once you try to use the transactional parts and so forth.
[00:05:08.210] – Jonathan Denwood
Yeah, as I was doing the research for this episode, some old memories have come back to me because I’m not actively developing for the past three years but some of these I have utilized. But my experience is based about three to four years ago. But it brought really great memories back to me. Let’s start off with modern event calendar. I haven’t used it but as I was doing my research he looked pretty good. I don’t know what your experience with this particular seems an Indian based coding shop. They seem to anger the moderators of WordPress.org a little bit but I suppose that’s got nothing to do with as a solution really. But I was intrigued.
[00:06:14.870] – Spencer Forman
Right, that’s an interesting point. We could just start off by saying that we have a situation that comes up on a regular basis with a very good plug in, even one that’s been around since the early days where something happens and either one of two events are the trigger. Either A, there’s an alleged security flaw that’s come up suddenly which doesn’t mean there’s a major problem, it just means it was identified. Maybe it was identified by Word fence or one of the Sakuri one of the security services and number two, the politics. Somebody in the ecosystem, which again we don’t really talk about anymore in the show of automatic, decides that they’re unhappy or upset with something somebody said or how they said it. Or in this case I believe the question or problem here was somebody was providing help for their free plugin in the forums and somebody at Automatic who was a free volunteer didn’t really appreciate the way that they were helping the person. Which doesn’t mean that was bad. It means that there’s these rules that are very restrictive. So if we get that out of the way and just talk about the plug in the modern events calendar is one of the foundational plugins.
[00:07:22.110] – Spencer Forman
And what I like about this in general is that it really does a fairly solid job of the main features that you need. But it also will work with a stack that I’ve referred to often, such as marketing automation. With WP Fusion, your favorite CRM connected, you can also use it with things like WooCommerce. So because it’s foundational in its capability as being part of the WordPress stack, but will also cooperate, like what we’ve discussed with LMS, I prefer to use this for its main purpose, which is scheduling the events and being able to demonstrate to people here’s a calendar, choose from this and that. And I think that’s really where it shines. The pricing on it is as expected. It’s interesting because I think I’m looking here on their website and I don’t see the immediate pricing, but I know it’s reasonably priced.
[00:08:12.930] – Jonathan Denwood
Here it was $79. $78 for a single site license?
[00:08:18.490] – Spencer Forman
Yes, $78. So again, going back to what we’ve discussed in many other conversations, you should expect that you’re going to spend on your stack of stuff on the average of $50 to $100 a month, which is about 600 to 1200 a year. This would fit very nicely into that budget because $75 to $100 for this capability would be reasonable along with the other features. And as I just mentioned, as I scroll through, the integrations are the ones you need. Right. So it has the integration directly with WooCommerce, but using something like tags and fields you can also integrate it through Wpfusion with your CRM.
[00:08:59.770] – Jonathan Denwood
Yeah. How would you classify it? Because you’ve got your DIY people that want to have a go themselves and then you got your implement, a straight developer crowd. I thought it straggles both the pure DIY crowd that are looking for it to be able to work with Gutenberg or one of the other major page builders, but also not how dependent is it on short codes or does it work with Gutenberg and some of the other page builders quite well.
[00:09:42.410] – Spencer Forman
Right. So as far as integrations, one of the things that’s unique and I think this is the right way to go about how the parent company is webness, I think I’m saying that right. They’ve decided to go with a pretty classic model, which again we see in a lot of other plugins, including Learn, where you get the core feature and then all the add ons. And the add ons are all a cart, but they’re reasonably priced. I finally did find their pricing page, which I found was a little odd how I missed it at first, but it was because I needed my screen pull width to see the button. Note to them, the average on the add ons is around $39 a year, which is, again, you don’t need all of them. There’s plenty of direct integrations with things like Elementor and so forth, but via short codes and or via the direct integration with what it does natively in the builder, it’s fine. That’s the least of your problems, I think. What happens that I can say, that’s not really a negative, but it’s just from the standpoint of complexity, there’s a lot of options, there’s a lot of nested options.
[00:10:48.640] – Spencer Forman
And so, as with many powerful plugins, it’s not so much what you know, it’s what you know. You can disable or turn off or ignore that matters because otherwise envision like a 747 cockpit, if you will, versus just a simple little airplane, you’re basically mostly controlling the plane with the yoke, but with all those gauges and dials, that can become overwhelming if you allow it. But if you set it up in the ways that we’ve discussed, your main capabilities can be pretty straightforward. And you can again directly integrate either to sell events through WooCommerce or natively in this through Stripe or PayPal. And if you want, you can even just do again one or two plugin configuration that allows you to get the job done right.
[00:11:35.100] – Jonathan Denwood
Thanks for that. Before we go on to the other solutions, I think we’re going to go for our first break. I got a couple of messages from our major sponsors. We will be back in a few moments.
[00:11:46.040] – Spencer Forman
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[00:12:19.530] – Jonathan Denwood
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[00:13:25.330] – Spencer Forman
[00:13:25.670] – Jonathan Denwood
You find it all there. Plus you can sign up for the WP Tonic newsletter which will go into your inbox every Monday with the best advice on membership websites and WordPress in general, plus some tech stories. So off we go. Let’s go on to the next one, which in some ways it’s a one person coding shop. It’s a kind of classic He’s Barkers, he’s been around for quite a while, keeps a low profile, dedicated developer. I haven’t actually utilized it. The only thing I would say about this, it seems a little bit more orientated to the developer power user implement a crowd rather than the DIY individual. But I don’t know if I’ve been fair there. So what’s your views on this one?
[00:14:26.710] – Spencer Forman
Well, actually I can introduce into this one the conversation of where the features you need might be useful. So, for example, for a lot of people having the ability to have a Google map integration, right? Because maybe you’re searching for events by a location, maybe you want direct zoom integration because the thing that you’re doing as an event requires one to many as a zoom caller, as a streaming live event and so forth. So whether it’s this plugin or the other ones, I think it’s important for somebody to recognize that the features you need might be the differentiator between this or that or the other. We’ve talked in other shows as well. Obviously I’m biased here because I’m a single. Well, we used to be a small company of like myself and twelve people, but now it’s just myself and Luke and there’s Jack who has a team of three, and there’s other people like Chris and Thomas who have a team of four. So the fact that Marcus and a couple of other people run it could actually be a benefit because I found that as a comparative, some of the teams that we love, like Shajahan Jule, they have teams of over 70 people.
[00:15:31.900] – Spencer Forman
And a lot of times the scale of that kind of company can get in the way of having more of a concierge service, right? So I would look at this plug in as not so much a complexity difference. There’s a good demo, it’s clean, it does the functions. It may not feel in some ways as polished as others, but I like that in other regards because a lot of times I have to undo what the plugins are adding in the way of styling or paint jobs and that becomes annoying in itself. Here’s another example. Harkening back to Learn, recently implemented, I think it’s almost two years now, but the Focus Mode. Now, the Focus Mode essentially provides you a pre configured full screen layout that is super awesome and clean, much like the simpler plug and Learn Press. The old Learn dash has lots of short codes and widgets and components and so forth that you can use. But if you use the layout of the traditional learn dash. It becomes a burden to style that thing to look like what you’re using. Whereas when you use the focus mode, it’s brilliant out of the box.
[00:16:39.300] – Spencer Forman
It just looks as it should. So I’m positive on this plug in. I think it’s one worthy of checking out and the price is right. Like anything else. I didn’t look to see what their policy was, but most of the smaller shops that have a name and a face behind it will give you a 30 day, no questions asked, money back guarantee. I haven’t checked that here, but that’s the typical way of doing business now. Whereas if you buy stuff off on vado, there’s a certain return policy, but then you get into the whole weird, like, you bought it, it’s yours. And I don’t understand that. I mean, that may still exist in some of the other ones we’re going to talk about.
[00:17:21.230] – Jonathan Denwood
I totally agree with you. I wasn’t I wasn’t making any disparaging connotations about it being a small coding shot.
[00:17:31.860] – Spencer Forman
No, I don’t think you were.
[00:17:33.970] – Jonathan Denwood
I just think it was interesting because the first one we start off with, I think they got a very large team. This is small Focus. I have used it, but it was like three or four years ago, and the code is pretty good. This is different styles about how to deal with this. So on to the next one. WP vent manager.
[00:18:02.970] – Spencer Forman
This one, if they’re listening, they need to get proofreader, like, yesterday, because aside from what the plugin does or can do, the main above the fold area does not make any sense to me and has a ginormous typo in it. It says everything. WP event manager in number four, simple bundle. What the F does that mean?
[00:18:31.490] – Jonathan Denwood
I’m a Dyslexic and I’ll be hell does that mean?
[00:18:36.180] – Spencer Forman
And then below it, it says over. And here’s the typo. Five comma, zero, comma, zero, zero plus professionals. So is that 5,500,000? Is that a new number I’m not aware of? Not good. If the primary thing people see on whatever plugin has that first message now, it might be somebody just got in there yesterday and there’s a booboo. So if they’re listening, they might want to check that out, but otherwise, well.
[00:19:10.510] – Jonathan Denwood
I’ve got some experience with this three years ago. Quite a large team, offers a lot of integrations. My God. Almost as much as Modi invent calendar 2009.
[00:19:26.600] – Spencer Forman
[00:19:27.670] – Jonathan Denwood
I found it a bit of a nightmare to deal with because with the Pacific themes. Pacific theme, because it over everything and was a little bit of a nightmare to deal with. But that was three years ago, so what can I say? I haven’t utilized it.
[00:19:50.190] – Spencer Forman
This is 22 folks on the team. I normally enjoy the fact that I know or recognize most everybody. The founder, Zhakat, if I’m saying that correct, ashok dude hot and I don’t know him. I haven’t met him, I have not seen him posting. So a lot of the newer plugins in the last two to three years, I have this very good relationship of helping. Like today. I mean, interacting directly with Shah Jahan’jewel. Right. With fluid. That’s really important because if there’s a bug or something, you can get the direct feedback to say this and that and the other feature have something not going right, and everybody can work together to get it done. I haven’t had an experience talking to these folks, but those minor things concern me because in the world that we’re in, you’re wasting a lot of time. And again, I can’t speak to this plug and having any problems, but I’m saying you’re wasting time if you’re dealing with a team that is either not thinking of WordPress as a set of features or is in their bubble of other things, right. If they’re primarily doing something else and they’re non responsive to the fact that you’re using this for a very important part of your business.
[00:21:03.030] – Spencer Forman
I E. I’m selling events.
[00:21:07.750] – Jonathan Denwood
Yeah. The price for a single site, I think it’s at $99. They’re all around. Between $70 and $100 for one site license was everything we’re going to be discussing. So it’s various what Spencer said. It’s very dependent on the features there. And it’s like Spencer says, there’s different styles that these different plugin shops have and you just got to be aware of it. I can’t attack them from bad grammar because like I said, I’ve got Dyslexia myself. But on the other hand, if you got a team of almost 30 people, you think somebody would be checking over because it is rather important, isn’t it?
[00:21:56.770] – Spencer Forman
I mean, here’s the thing. I’m looking at the feature set, right? And so I can forgive the typos because if the software is good and so forth, they do seem to have the integrations in the highest bundle, the Events Manager Pro. That one would need to be fair about it. One site is $399. So this is important because it’s a consequential price difference. But to get, let’s say, for example, the Google Maps and the Zoom, and then again, if you wanted a direct integration with some CRM, they have a few of them, like Salesforce send them Blues Active campaign. But I’m going to presume everybody’s going to follow our advice and go with Wpfusion or Connection to Fluent or something. But if you went with any of those, you’re really, I think, to get the Google Maps in particular and the Zoom needing to be either at the Event Manager Pro, virtual Event Pro or the All Events Manager Pro, which is going to put you in the 299 to 399 range.
[00:22:58.250] – Jonathan Denwood
A few of these are like that. They’re not the sole one, but something you got to be aware of.
[00:23:03.850] – Spencer Forman
So thanks again. Going back to the point. All of these, it’s like going to, I don’t know, your shoe store. There could be 40 different shoes that look interesting, any one of which, or many of them, could be a good fit. You’ve got to go try them on. But the things that you’re looking at that should be compared are which key features do you need? Does it work with the stack of these other things in an automation set up? And are you paying for something that’s going to get you the kind of support you need? Because when things go bad, it’s really difficult to deal with the fact that these are plugins, because it’s not like one company making all the stuff and they see all the consequences. You have to verbalize to them, I’m using this and this and this and this, connecting to your thing. And if the support person there has no clue what you’re talking about of this and this and this, you’re just going to reach it like, I don’t know what you’re talking about. Not our problem. You need somebody who is already thinking of WordPress as a set of features, who understand, of course, we’ve got to look into this because otherwise a lot of our customers are going to be pissed off as well, you see.
[00:24:09.090] – Spencer Forman
And it’s becoming more and more of an issue as the ecosystem evolves, whereas in the past, everybody was kind of on their own, right? Like, hey, we’re all tinkerers. Not our problem, not our plugin. Fix it yourself. But you can’t do that in today’s world with a business that runs so much stuff on workforce.
[00:24:25.550] – Jonathan Denwood
All right, on to the next one. Before we go for a break. AMMedia. We use AMMedia quite a bit. What’s? Your faults on Amelia?
[00:24:42.410] – Spencer Forman
It’s one of the top choices. It’s not for today. Amelia really, I think is a better booking solution, in fairness. It’s one of those ones that overlap, so I prepared the conversation for that. But if I was to say which I would rather use it for, I would say it’s a really super solid booking choice, very complex. It’s a framework. It really is in a plug in, but it has all those integrations you need. And if you go through the trouble, it really is well developed, well supported. I mean, Kudos, you could run a lot of stuff on it. The events, the virtual events, online sessions, conferences, I think is not like, really recent, but is a recent add on to what they’ve been doing. And it works. But I think of Amelia more for the booking stuff. But I’ll leave it open to the idea that if somebody has an event, definitely give this one a try, because even when you use it, although it feels like a framework, you’re taken into your own ecosystem in your WordPress site just for running this stuff. It’s got its own dashboard, its own really neat stuff.
[00:25:52.920] – Spencer Forman
It’s very well done.
[00:25:56.050] – Jonathan Denwood
They’ve got a considerable team behind them, but they’ve been in the WordPress space for quite a while. The support we got with them has been good.
[00:26:06.710] – Spencer Forman
Pricing is good. I mean, it’s like one domain, $79 other than package of services and WhatsApp integration, which I have to look up what that means for what it does. I mean, that’s a really good price.
[00:26:21.610] – Jonathan Denwood
It’s a bit of a Swiss I think you put it quite well, actually, because I was going to say Swiss Army knife, but I think the way your Wording was better. A framework. It’s a powerful tool, but it’s okay if you’re getting what we do for clients. But I wouldn’t say it’s the easiest thing to set up if you’re doing it yourself. It’s like a framework. You kind of really well.
[00:26:51.600] – Spencer Forman
The more features things have, you need the vocabulary and the perspective to first understand what you’re doing. Then you need to actually go through the steps. I mean, for example, if I wanted to learn how to make pasta and I wanted to move to Italy to learn from somebody, first, I really need, in many cases, to speak the native language to get the nuances of what they’re going to be talking about. And then I need to know the history of pasta making or something to understand why I’m going to the source. Then I can go spend my time learning the craft. It’s really hard for somebody to come into WordPress with no experience and take a plug in by itself with this level of complexity and look at all the features without understanding exactly why they needed that thing in the first place, what things not to use, where to go with it. And again, that’s going to be a problem that is slowly but surely fixed over time when we do these WordPress as a service type of things that we’re talking about. But for the moment, buyer beware, you’re going to have to still deal with if you take it on yourself without the help of somebody like us that does something to streamline it.
[00:28:02.800] – Spencer Forman
Yeah, there’s lots of cool stuff in there that could take you down a path of learning.
[00:28:08.170] – Jonathan Denwood
We’re going to go for a break. We will be back in a few moments, folks.
[00:28:14.510] – Spencer Forman
Hey, it’s Spence from Launchflows.com. If you’ve been looking for a fast and easy way to create powerful sales funnels on WordPress, then look no further than Launch Flows. In just minutes, you can easily create instant registration upsells, downsells, order bumps, one click checkouts, one time offers, custom thank you pages, and best of all, no coding is required. For as little as $50 per year, you can own and control your entire sales funnel machine with Launch Flows. Get your copy today. This podcast episode is brought to you by Lifter LMS, the leading learning management system solution for WordPress. If you or your client are creating any kind of online course, training based membership website, or any type of elearning project, lifter LMS is the most secure, stable, well supported solution on the market. Go to lifterlms.com and save 20% at checkout with coupon code podcast 20. That’s podcast 20. Enjoy the rest of your show.
[00:29:23.990] – Jonathan Denwood
We’re coming back. Like to point out if you’re looking to build your membership website, your elearning platform on WordPress, and you should have a look at WP Tonic. We are a great hosting provider, plus we offer all the plugins, leading plugins as part of our packages, plus support, plus a load of other features. I think we’re one of the best providers if you’re looking to build a membership site on WordPress. So go over to WP Tonic, book a free consultation with me or a member of my team and we’re trying to help you out. Please do that. On to the next well, I’ll be interested to see what you say about this event espresso event oppresso. They’ve been around for a long.
[00:30:25.130] – Spencer Forman
[00:30:25.540] – Jonathan Denwood
Been around a long time. I think they’re the big daddy of event plugins. I think they were one of the first. I think it’s one other that we’re going to be discussing that when I was developing with it. I don’t love hate affair with this particular plugins. I’m just going to see what you got to say about it.
[00:30:53.970] – Spencer Forman
Honestly, it does what you need to do. It may be a little longer in the tooth with regard to the interface and so forth, even as you can see from their home page. It’s been a while, it’s kind of nostalgic for me, but when I look at the front page and I see the screenshots, I see WordPress 1.0 kind of icons, which nobody who has come on recently would understand what I’m talking about. But if you look at the easy event management and ticket plug in image, that’s like a WordPress one X, maybe two X interface with those colors and the icons and so forth. So listen, that’s a blessing or a curse. On the one hand, they’ve been around forever. It’s solid, it has Wpfusion integration pricing is well nice. It’s over 40,000 websites, it says, and it works. It does the job. There’s solid support. The team behind it is well known and so forth. So from that standpoint, I have nothing, but definitely give it a try kind of praise. Because again, what really it comes down to is there’s the aesthetics and the mechanics. If the aesthetics are neutral or otherwise fit, all that matters is the mechanics.
[00:32:06.890] – Spencer Forman
And at the end of the day, if it has the features like the Google Map integration, the zoom, if it goes to, you know, Google Ical and allows you to work with things like WooCommerce and other, you know, direct gateways, it’s all good. They’re doing some kind of thing which again, that’s nothing to do with how good or not the plugin is, but they’re doing some kind of lifetime offer which it says it’s ending. But looking at their pricing, a personal license. Is, you know, $99. That seems pretty reasonable. I think you have to buy all the add ons all the cart.
[00:32:39.100] – Jonathan Denwood
Well, it’s very similar to what you pointed out with WP manager, wasn’t it? That yeah, if you want everything, it gets a bit more pricey quite rapidly, doesn’t it?
[00:32:54.740] – Spencer Forman
I’m going to look at some of them, like the events calendar. Yeah. Right. So this is a good case of where I think you probably, if you’re considering it, should just jump to everything included, plus license price of $359. Otherwise you’re just going to end up nickel and diming yourself, probably. You know what I mean?
[00:33:19.550] – Jonathan Denwood
It’s it’s it’s really hard to tell because I haven’t used it for a while, but I’m struggling here a little bit. I’ll just reframe my faults. It’s one of the founder plugins that if you’re looking for implement a developer and you wanted to set up the event for a client, it was one of the first that you looked at. But it’s just giving some signs, which doesn’t mean it’s the reality from the website.
[00:33:56.730] – Spencer Forman
It’s 2009. I just looked up on the about page, and I like the fact that the founders are there, garth and his Brent. But 2009 is three years after WordPress really started going, and at the same time, I was in 2006. So that’s why it was funny, because the imagery and everything really reflects that. 2009 was 13 years ago, folks. That’s not like yesterday. There’s a competitor comparison page, which is sort of helpful. That also is interesting because I’m not saying listen, I’m not saying that this is comprehensive, but the choices they’re showing in the competitor comparison also seem a little long in the tooth. And so as a developer and a plug in author, that gives me a feeling like they found a niche. It’s a nice running itself kind of thing. I’m sure they’ve got enough people to support it, but you know what I mean? Like, it’s just doing its thing. It’s solid choice, give it a run through. But I couldn’t say compared to Amelia, that it’s like, look at the new thing and how cool this interface is and all the rest. It’s a completely different experience in that regard.
[00:35:09.320] – Spencer Forman
[00:35:10.040] – Jonathan Denwood
Let’s go on to one that I haven’t utilized, but it’s from a coding shop that I have a lot of respect for that really know ten up, they know what they’re doing by Event Canada. WD, what’s your thoughts about this one?
[00:35:31.160] – Spencer Forman
I want to look this up because I want to see if this actually has an integration. Wpfusion, I don’t remember this having one. I’m not saying it doesn’t. I want to check it. It’s actually called the WordPress event calendar. Right. Let me double check.
[00:35:46.110] – Jonathan Denwood
I got increasingly confused because they all.
[00:35:48.610] – Spencer Forman
Got very several names. But let me see on the events, because to me, that would be a really important thing. This is a company. I mean, while this is doing a search on Wpfusion, this is a company that clearly is doing a lot of other stuff right. So this is a scratch your own, itch kind of a thing. I don’t immediately see anything that looks like it’s working with Wpfusion. So subject to being corrected as I always want to be, that would be to me a non starter but I’m very biased in that way. But if you think of it like this, number one, number two, number three things people request from us when we do consultative work, I need to sell somebody or allow somebody to check out for free to get access to an event. I need that event to be on a zoom or something. I need the Google calendar and a map to work with it. I need to have those people added to my CRM so I can follow up with them. If you can’t do that, then you’re really talking about a completely different product, aren’t you? Because having an event in a vacuum is no longer good enough.
[00:37:05.020] – Jonathan Denwood
Well, I think you’ve done an excellent job there because that’s the main thing I was hoping that you would point out and you have so well is you can’t see these what the plugins that we’re going to be talking about in this show and other things in the new year. It’s a little bit more complicated because you just don’t choose precisely on price. And the way the website you got to think, are they still actively working on this plug in and are they actively working on it so it will integrate with the other leading plugins in the framework, which is WordPress, because otherwise you’re going to end up in problems.
[00:38:00.810] – Spencer Forman
I just want to clarify because it wouldn’t be fair otherwise. First of all, I’m looking at the events list and I’m not saying it’s not one of these, but I cannot match this plug in to one of the known integrations as far as I can tell, of a WP fusion. And the second part of that is I realize that I may sound like a broken record to many people who could care less about WP fusion, but I can’t emphasize enough how important this is to everything we’re discussing because there is no real SaaS solution that does not have a marketing automation follow up capability. So if we’re trying to build with WordPress a comparable solution like WordPress as a solution, it’s imperative that you’ve got the capability of either the direct integration with your CRM or something like a WP fusion so that you can follow up. You can take somebody who buys this and goes to this event and know what to do next. Otherwise you’re just going to be limited in what your capacities are versus somebody else that’s using another tool. So if I’m incorrect and there is an integration with this, fantastic.
[00:39:08.010] – Spencer Forman
It has a lot of downloads, it’s very popular, it’s priced right. The interface is nice, but it probably is leaning heavily. I’m trying to see here it’s probably leaning heavily on something else, maybe like Zapier in order to get the data. So I see it’s got Google Calendar integration and Ical, which is nice. I’m looking to see where the other integrations lie.
[00:39:35.770] – Jonathan Denwood
It isn’t as feature integration rich as a couple of the others like Amelia or Modern Event Calendar or WP Event Manager. But that’s why I think this is only my view of it. In some ways it’s a bit more advanced than the Event Manager. In other words, it’s more implementing coding kind of focus, which isn’t surprising. It’s coming from ten up in a way, but I might be wrong there. I think it has got some integrations but he hasn’t got the kind of integrations of some of the other people.
[00:40:21.140] – Spencer Forman
With the impression that I get. And again, I have not used this extensively, but when you have a plug in that is specifically a high end feature let’s go back and talk about Amelia. Amelia is very clear, it’s a product. Whereas the impression I get from this is this is a plug in that this development company along with 22 other things they’ve written, scratches the itches of their customers and as such it looks nice, it feels nice, good interface, but it’s like an accessory plugin versus a full blown solution. And so I did make it to, for example, to their health center because there’s 20 something plugins here and it’s got like one little section and it’s got an Instagram feed, SEO, Google Maps, Social Feed, analytics, slider MailChimp, YouTube, Ad Manager, FAQ and that’s it. So I don’t see immediately anything that gives me a belief I’m incorrect here about here. It’s a connection to send the person who signs up for this through a checkout to something else. And again, back to the point, if that’s all you need, great. But you’re doing yourself a disservice to not have one source of truth CRM of all your customers and contacts if you’re doing more than just basically most minut business.
[00:41:47.570] – Jonathan Denwood
Let’s move on to Event On, which is the only one, but I included it because if you do a search about Event Solution or WordPress it’s on Code Cannon and it’s $25. I’m including it because I know a lot of people that look into membership site on WordPress and they’re looking to do an event, they’re just going to do a general Google search and then they see the price of $25 on Code Canyon. I’ve never used it and I can’t remark I thought I included it to give us the opportunity to point out some of the pitfalls that you were not it’s very hard to word this to be fair about going down to Code Canyon and that so what’s your views about this and hopefully you can understand why I included it.
[00:42:53.940] – Spencer Forman
Yeah. Okay. So I’m going to make some general statements. First of all, code canyon, Envato theme forest, all that stuff. The Envado market. The founder and his brother have created an amazing business. And I know some of the original developers. So undeniably things there are quality enough and many of them are high quality. But it is like going down to the ultimate flea market that existed first and foremost, where the business model for the people who put stuff there is not like they’re trying to build a brand and be known for supporting their thing. So just because I can buy some awesome electronics like when I was a kid, we didn’t have the Internet and all these. We used to go down to the South Side and there’d be like on Sundays, people with tables and you can find some really cool stuff there. But it’s not like you’re going to find this person the next weekend or something. So with the caveat in mind that this is the flea market of cool stuff to add to your website and there’s a whole WordPress section of things. Second of all is this plug in, although I have not used it either.
[00:44:05.790] – Spencer Forman
Just read the comments. It gets a lot of good reviews. It’s a 4.38, but it seems from the comments and it seems from what’s being displayed here, this is more of an aesthetic plugin. Like, I have a website and I want to put a few events up and make it look super cool, which it does. And that’s it, right? So from that standpoint, the comments, which range from five stars to I strongly advise not to use this. It’s like a restaurant. If your restaurant has like one thing on the menu that you love and all the rest is like scary, you’ll still probably go there because it’s soon like, I need the hot dog, right? I’m not going to eat any of the chicken. I just want the hot dog. So caveat M store here, buyer beware. This is not where I would go because it has no integration, as we just mentioned with Wpfusion or otherwise. This is not where I would go for a deep solution for a WordPress business. But if you did have a need for like, hey, I got a one or two event kind of thing, I want it to look cool.
[00:45:06.130] – Spencer Forman
Just pop it in and it’s $25. Yeah, solid.
[00:45:10.530] – Jonathan Denwood
Because it’s almost the total opposite of something like a media or modern vent calendar, isn’t it? It’s the total opposite. So I thought it was a good gives insight to the listeners and viewers of this.
[00:45:26.420] – Spencer Forman
I think this is what you would call a lot of show with less go. In other words, it looks really sexy for one off, two off events or a live stream or something. It’s like $25. Pop it in and it looks super cool and it does what it needs to do. But the deeper integrations, the deeper things, the business that you might build off of. This is not going to be probably as satisfying as using something for the long term. So, again, there’s a Chicago, there’s a lot of hotdog and pizza places. There’s a place called Mr. Beef. If I need an Italian beef sandwich, the best one, I got to drive down to the specific spot on Kinsey Street to go to Mr.
[00:46:04.360] – Jonathan Denwood
[00:46:04.680] – Spencer Forman
And it’s like a time machine. You don’t go there for anything other than the beef sandwich. But this is my example. If you need a really cool, sexy one time event plug in, just put this thing in and it’ll look great and call it a day for $25.
[00:46:19.110] – Jonathan Denwood
Yeah. So this goes to the complete opposite to Ed, the big gorilla in the event market. I thought I’d leave it to last event calendar owned by.
[00:46:38.190] – Spencer Forman
I’m not disagreeing, but I think we need I didn’t catch this before. You’re missing the real gorilla. The one that I actually recommend is not on this list. We have to include it. And so we can do it after this if you want, at two events. We’re about to talk about the events calendar from Modern Tribe, but that’s actually not the one that I recommend.
[00:47:06.070] – Jonathan Denwood
There’s so many obviously we use a video.
[00:47:12.970] – Spencer Forman
I should have caught it earlier, but I’ll paste it in the show notes here for your follow up dothio.
[00:47:19.390] – Jonathan Denwood
Right, fair enough. He’s only had the notes for a whole week, folks. He said it for a couple of days.
[00:47:28.830] – Spencer Forman
So fluid thing in the Jonathan Dunwood world.
[00:47:33.890] – Jonathan Denwood
Yeah. There we go. Well, let’s discuss this one event calendar, it’s a big player. I don’t want to call I call them Liquid Web. Got so many different names, but they bought it hosting company Liquid Web. And it’s one of the big gorillas in this area. The price, it can like, some of the other ones, it can get really pricey really quick. Quickly starts at the $99. But I don’t think if you want all the swings and bills, it soon gets a lot more expensive. What do you reckon about it?
[00:48:30.050] – Spencer Forman
Well, let’s identify the benefits and stuff. And first of all, I think I’m seeing a trend here. Now, this might be a user interface trend. Remember a while back we had that lady, I think her name was Leslie who lives in Italy with her boyfriend, who was talking about like, user interface and experience. I noticed there’s a trend now where nobody’s just putting a pricing link on the navigation menu. Instead you have to click, like, get started or something to see the pricing. Besides that, though, one site, $99 with the free plus. I guess it’s the pro plan. Everything in free plus, including the recurring events, elementary custom fields and so forth. So, first things, this is well supported. It’s part of a family of other stuff found. It works really well for a lot of things. I found that like anything else, there’s a lot of complexity to configuring because it has so much power, but it works really well. It definitely works with marketing automation. With WPF Fusion, it gives you 99% of what you need. So in the end of the day, the difference between this and what we’re going to talk about next, Foo Events, is very minuscule.
[00:49:41.950] – Spencer Forman
But the reason that I lean more heavily, if I can, on Foo Events is because of its deeper integration with WooCommerce. So again, for me, that’s part of this stack system where I recommend WooCommerce is like a foundational plug in. I do think that this works natively with WooCommerce, but not quite as deep. So I give this a very positive rating. I would definitely check this out because it has the integrations, of course, with Learn and the other components that they own. And Cadence is a theme is irrelevant, but that’s obviously one of the things they own over there at Liquid Web and so forth. We don’t know whether it’s Iconic or Liquid Web or whichever the brand is.
[00:50:24.790] – Jonathan Denwood
They have mentioned to me they’re a little bit irritated with my comments about their diabetes, but it’s not actually very confusing.
[00:50:38.970] – Spencer Forman
Just as a side note, we don’t have to make this part of our thing, but I’m good pals with Kathy Zan, who’s one of the product managers. Let’s just see if we could figure out for ourselves, because we know through anecdote who’s involved in this. But when I go to the footer, it says our partner brands Items Learn Dash restrict Content Pro Cadence give WP Iconic Those, to me, don’t seem like brands, those seem like product. But we know there’s a hosting company, Liquid Web, and we know there’s some company that owns this. But I would wonder whether or not that could be easily discerned.
[00:51:14.970] – Jonathan Denwood
Are they called? Standard WP? Are they Nexus or are they liquid Web?
[00:51:20.520] – Spencer Forman
I find it very clear hold on, it says here when I search for that I lost your audio for a second there, Jonathan. No, wrong. It says here it was acquired by Liquid Web. So let’s make a presumption, because CrunchBase maybe is wrong, says Liquid Web owns it. So we weren’t wrong. But Liquid Web has 210 plus employees, 13 brands under its name. It’s a big gorilla. But what’s confusing to all of us is why don’t they just say it’s Liquid Web and everything under it has its various things? Because there seems to be sub groupings within there not our problem. But just worthy of noting when you buy something, who it is that’s actually running it and supporting it. Right. That’s important to know.
[00:52:08.890] – Jonathan Denwood
Yeah, but I think one of the benefits of it, and I’m trying to be fair here, they do seem to be investing into the product where I’m only surmising about what we said about Event espresso. Hopefully I pronounced that correctly.
[00:52:27.750] – Spencer Forman
This is a completely different animal because this fits into look, we lost your mic again, Joe.
[00:52:33.130] – Jonathan Denwood
No, I think I’m still here.
[00:52:36.850] – Spencer Forman
The audio cuts out. Let me just say, let’s put this in the category of the future of WordPress. I’ve been referring today to WordPress as a service, right? There are certain verticals that we’ve already identified, many of which are hosting companies that are trying to build their own verticals, right? So we’ve talked about obviously automatic. And there’s the GoDaddy. Liquid Web is one of the verticals where they’re putting all the pieces in and trying to essentially sell things exactly what it is that they’re offering. And at the end of the day, it’s just back to my conversation about things like Netflix, Hulu, Disney Plus. It’s a channel that has everything you need in it to have WordPress as a service, right? The difference is going to be number one, what things are in that channel and how do they put it together and ready to use format. So we’re right now in the early stages of WordPress as a service where everybody’s in one of these verticals buying up pieces, but they’re still not doing a great job. And self admitted of what exactly is this thing, this stack of stuff we’ve got? And some heads are rolling, especially in the Liquid Web world.
[00:53:52.410] – Spencer Forman
We know from the last year some big names left the company unexpectedly, which tells me there’s a lot of problems like what are we doing with all this stuff? I’m saying the changes of WordPress are being reflected areas. Elementor hosted in the cloud is going to be elementor with some calendar feature in it and maybe even like other divvy things. But in the hosting realm, the hosts are the ones that have the best opportunity. WP Engine is doing it, Liquid Web is doing it, Pagely GoDaddy is doing it, automatic is doing they’re all coming up with their own stack of stuff and they’re going to offer WordPress as a comprehensive service, their own flavor and.
[00:54:35.050] – Jonathan Denwood
Guaranteed onto the last one. This is where we are not fundamentally slightly disagree with Spencer. Disagree is not even the right term. I totally understand Spencer’s position, but WP tonic’s position on this is slightly different. But it is what it is. But I left out the last one, as you pointed out through events. So you see WooCommerce as the key, where you bolt on all these additional functionality, but with WP fusion you see WooCommerce as the key element. So you’ve had some good experiences in utilizing food events as part of that key elements that you preach.
[00:55:39.950] – Spencer Forman
On a feature by feature basis, modern events, calendar and foo events are comparable. But here’s the nuance. I keep referring to a stack of stuff that works like WordPress as a service. WooCommerce should legitimately be in every WordPress installation, even if you don’t sell a single thing just because it’s capacity for working with even my own lunch flows or the other five other plugins for sales funnel. So you can take a stranger a lead, turn them into a prospect, add them to your CRM, get them into a registered and logged in as a user status, and then track all of the things they do. And by the way, WooCommerce connects to so many externalities like metauric and stuff for deep dive. But what the difference was between, let’s say, modern events calendar and Foo Events was the simplicity and the elegance with which you could sell an event or give an event for free at the product sales level. It’s a very small but very significant difference. So when you’re going to configure what you can do, we’ve just found Foo Events has this like you’re already at the level of launch flows wpfusion fluent, some other integrations that are like really WordPress Woocommercecentric.
[00:56:59.680] – Spencer Forman
And by doing it that way, you’re deeper integrating at a simpler place than otherwise. And I’ll use a metaphor here because again, we love Chris and Lifter LMS and all the rest of the stuff. But remember last show or the show before, how I I said even though we highly recommend lifter, one of my complaints is that it requires you to create this artificial plan, a lifetime access plan, in order to just use it natively with like WooCommerce or something like that. And I felt that that was one of the advantages Learn Dash had, where learn Dash had this direct integration where all you do is put in a plug in and all of a sudden it’s like boom, no plan required. You could just give access to a course or courses or lessons just from a product in WooCommerce. That’s the kind of feature related capability I was in capacity. That makes a big difference when you’re trying to set up a complex marketing automation business. And I love it. Price wise, it’s also comparable, I think. So your basic basic bundle, 139, but 199 for the premium one gives you the chotch keys.
[00:58:05.380] – Spencer Forman
I don’t know if you need these, but like PDF tickets, the calendar for sure, but you get that at the basic, to be honest, the seating and the check ins, I think you only get like you know what? I think you only need the basic bundle for a lot of stuff here because it’s just the events and the calendar, the ones that we use mostly for 139. That’s a pretty good price.
[00:58:28.520] – Jonathan Denwood
What about as an example, you mentioned it with some of the others, like the zoom integration. Do you get that?
[00:58:38.470] – Spencer Forman
That’s a really good question because it almost doesn’t matter, but I’m sure you do. Yes, but I’m going to go to their actual features. The reason it matters less is because this is also key. When you tap into the WooCommerce thing and everything that follows, you’ve got that capacity built in. For example, we happen to use ourselves calendly. So in our case, like using Spencer foreman or WP launchify. If we wanted to sell an event, I can essentially give a calendarly calendar for a one person thing or some other calendar thing that sends somebody on and delivers the event link. So if I was doing a one to many webinar and you bought like actually a WP launch club, I sell a workshop. The integration comes from the WooCommerce part of it. In other words, I take the zoom link, I put it inside of the product deliverable, and when you buy the product, you not only know what day it is and get the event info, but when you go there, you’re given the link to get into the thing. So in that sense, I believe even if it doesn’t have the direct integration, it works.
[00:59:47.950] – Spencer Forman
But you raise a good point. Let me see if it has a Zoom direct integration, because there’s other things too that I don’t want to lean heavily on. But when you go the marketing automation route, which you could do with modern events as well. Yeah, it’s got zoom integration. But I want to point something out there’s also helper plugins, like even though, again, you may not need it, things like Automator WP. Right. It’s not a Zapier, it’s in the WordPress ecosystem. But there’s, let’s say an event trigger. You bought the event product that in and of itself could, for example, give you the Zoom link or something, if you couldn’t find another way.
[01:00:24.180] – Jonathan Denwood
Right, well, we use as part of our bundle Automator, which is comparable product. Yeah.
[01:00:35.450] – Spencer Forman
By the way, somebody was listening. Milan wanted to know if we could do a wrap up.
[01:00:40.140] – Jonathan Denwood
Well, I think we do, because I think it’s been a useful discussion. We couldn’t go into the micro element of each functionality. I think that would go on forever. I think what we have achieved, and hopefully you would agree, Spencer, we’ve given some insights about some of the questions that should be in your mind if you’re building a membership site and WordPress and the events is an important element, a key part of the business model. Some of the questions that should be in your mind as outside of trying to make going on to YouTube or looking in general through Google searches some of the things that you should be aware of in your mind when you’re trying to make a choice, because.
[01:01:40.190] – Spencer Forman
[01:01:40.590] – Jonathan Denwood
Probably will be a crucial part of your business if you’re doing events around membership and you don’t want to make a really wrong choice, really, because it’s going to waste a lot of time and money and energy. So hopefully we’re given some insights. What do you think? I think we’ve been reasonably successful on that.
[01:02:03.190] – Spencer Forman
Yeah, I think let’s break it down into three categories.
[01:02:06.050] – Jonathan Denwood
[01:02:06.400] – Spencer Forman
So category one is I just need a sort of sexy, good looking thing for a one off event or two. And so we’ve got that envato option and you’ve got maybe I have to go back to the list of names here, for example. And then you’ve got that other, simpler, more vintage plug in, which was I may need to lean on you because I closed the tabs on these, but.
[01:02:33.910] – Jonathan Denwood
It was the would you classify event espresso?
[01:02:39.260] – Spencer Forman
It was events espresso. Thank you. Yeah, the one from 2009. Between the two of them, I would just I would check out for a lightweight, sort of one off, sexy looking thing. I would probably just go with that one from Envato. The second would be if you’re not necessarily selling events, but you’re using events as part of another business, there is some possibility that you find a match with one of those middle ground plugins. But I’m going to just sort of say, while you’re at it, you might as well just go the whole way. If you were using WooCommerce and following my advice and using marketing automation, I would just go and look directly, I mean, at Amelia or Modern Events or Foo Events, because the ones in the middle, I don’t want to take away from their ability to do this and that like the ten up one and so forth. But the price is not a big enough difference to warrant the orphaning all the options. And then if you lean heavily, as I do, on using WooCommerce, and I’m going to use a personal choice. I loved Amelia. I love the developers.
[01:03:46.620] – Spencer Forman
I talked with them directly. I love the interface. It was very complex to set up, but by the end of the day, it doesn’t do the things I need as features. It’s a framework, whereas Foo Events is definitely a feature. Like, you could just use the part of that you need and boom, you’re off to the races. And that is really a big deal because I don’t want to have especially for my end users, clients or our own, I don’t want to have somebody have to look at all these extra dashboards and know the nuances and everything else. I want them to just have something that runs on its own, mechanically, and the results are delivered at the WooCommerce level. Right? Like, who bought what, when did they do it? Are they tagged? And then they can see them in the CRM, if at all. Or another dashboard product like metoric. And so for that, Foo Events number one, modern Events calendar number two, amelia with a caveat, number three, I definitely.
[01:04:43.020] – Jonathan Denwood
See where you’re coming from, because if you really believe in this and I totally understand and I do agree with you, it’s just that I kind of struggling to put this into a coherent structure. It’s just that there’s a lot of propaganda against WooCommerce, but in a way, I do understand and in some ways is a simpler approach, just utilizing WooCommerce. And then you got the elephants, which the language that you use are bolt on Lego bits. The.
[01:05:28.630] – Spencer Forman
Difficulty here is that it’s like having a bunch of friends and you rented like a limo or something. You only have a certain number of seats you can recommend. Right. And the problem is sometimes you have to pick one friend over another friend. It doesn’t mean you don’t think the best of them, it’s just you have to pick one. And in this case, if I pick the one overall choice, I would say for most people, flu events with WooCommerce fits perfectly into almost every scenario where we’ve had a WooCommerce based marketing automation site with sales funnels and so forth. Number two, modern events is great. Number three, for those who don’t need necessarily or aren’t selling other kind of sales funnel or WooCommerce subscriptions and memberships, then maybe Amelia is a good choice because it’s sort of a platform and a plug in. The rest are try them out. I don’t want to always go with the big dogs, but the Foo events is not a big dog. It’s a plug in that’s a feature. And it’s not really by itself like a monster. It’s just really well suited, kind of like affiliate WP. We haven’t done an affiliate show because there’s really only one, maybe two plugins that do affiliates.
[01:06:42.180] – Spencer Forman
But affiliate WP is not a monster plugin, it just does the one thing you needed to do.
[01:06:48.050] – Jonathan Denwood
All right, we’re going to wrap it up now, folks. Got any questions? You can go to Spencer’s website, you can outreach to WP Tonic. We’re both pretty active on many platforms and we do answer personally. If you got a question you need help with or join us on the live show. We do this at 830 Pacific Standard Time. We love more people to join us live. You got any membership questions around WordPress? How does the business side? You’ve got any help? We will answer your questions for free. Well, we’re not going to be back next week.
[01:07:28.610] – Spencer Forman
We’re not going to be back till after the holiday.
[01:07:30.370] – Jonathan Denwood
No, it’s a new year. We will be back as time is flying quick. I just like to take the opportunity to wish you a happy Christmas and a new year and you’ll see us back in the first week of the new year. We will see you soon. Thanks. Bye.
[01:07:47.330] – Ending
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