#101 – The Membership Machine Show: Podcast How Should One Develop, Produce, And Advertise a Profitable Show?
Podcast: How Should One Develop, Produce, And Advertise a Profitable Show?
From Idea to Earnings: A Beginner’s Guide to Crafting a Profitable Podcast
Unlock the secrets to launching a lucrative podcast! Our beginner’s guide reveals proven strategies to turn your podcast idea into a steady income stream.
You Need a Plan To Avoid Podfading
Who is Your Target Audience
What Are Going to Be Your Key Topics
What is Going to Be Your Podcast Format
Interview
Conversational
Educational
Solo
Industry News
Essential Tactics for Audience Growth
Social Media
Email List
Being a Guest on Other People’s Podcasts
Share Your Podcast EpisodesRevenue Streams in Podcasting
Sponsorships
Affiliate marketing
Listener-supported models
Merchandise sales
Live eventsAnalytics: Knowing Your Listeners
Second Half of The Show
What Equipment You Need?
Microphone (USB)#1 – Audio-Technica AT2005USB
Price $57.99#2 – RØDE PodMic USB
Price $199#3- Shure MV7+ Podcast Dynamic
Prices $229
Video Cameras
Smartphones
Webcams
Logitech for Creators StreamCam
Opal Tadpole
DSLRs and Mirrorless Cameras
Sony ZVE10
Canon EOS M50
Sigma 16mm:
Recording Platform#1 – Zencastr
Prices Standard $20 | Grow $30 | Scale $50 | Business $100 per month#2 – Riverside
Prices Free | Standard $19 | Pro $29 per month#3 – StreamYard
Prices Core $35 | Advanced $68.99 | Teams $238.99 paid monthly/yearly#4 – Evmux
Prices Free | Basic $25 | Pro $49 paid monthly
Ecamm (Mac Only)
Prices Standard $20 | Pro $40 per month
Podcasting Hosting Platform#1 – Castos
Essentials $19 | Growth $49 | Pro $99
#2 – Libsyn
Prices Basic $7 | Plus $15 | Advanced $20
#3 – Blubrry
Prices Standard $12 | Advanced $20 | Professional $100 per month
This Week Show’s Sponsors
LifterLMS: LifterLMS
Convesio: Convesio
Omnisend: Omnisend
The Show’s Main Transcript
[00:00:05.440] – Jonathan Denwood
Welcome back, folks, to the Membership Machine Show. This is episode 101. 101. Amazing. And in this show, we will discuss something I’m very enthusiastic about. I do have moments when I’m not, but I still love it. It’s a love-hate relationship. And that’s podcasting. And I think podcasting has had its ups and downs. It’s escalating now; it’s going up again, but it has these ups and downs. I’ve kept with it. I think it’s a great way of building an audience for your membership website, building influence, and building your tribe, as I say. I’ve got some great… We’re going to go into the strategy in the first half. Some of the most important things you’ve got to think about will help you avoid pod fading, and I will tell you what pod fading is.
[00:01:52.240] – Jonathan Denwood
In the second half, we go into the mechanics and some of the equipment that I feel offers the best value. And if you’re beginning, we’ll help you build your podcast. And as you grow, the equipment will still be effective. I’ve got my great co-host, my regular co-host of my little team. I’ve got Kurt with me. Kurt, would you like to introduce yourself to the new listeners and viewers?
[00:02:25.240] – Kurt von Ahnen
Yeah, Jonathan. My name is Kurt von Annen. I run an agency called MananaNoMas. Coincidentally, we have a podcast called the MananaNoMas podcast. We work with membership and learning websites and directly with WP-Tonic and the folks at Liftre LMS.
[00:02:40.120] – Jonathan Denwood
That’s great. He’s a great member of the team. Before we go into the meat and potatoes of this excellent episode, I’ve got a significant message from one of our sponsors. We will be back in a few moments, folks. Three, two, one. I’m coming back, folks. We got some great special offers from the sponsors, plus a list of the best WordPress plugins and services that will help you build your membership or community website on WordPress. It will save you a load of time and aggravation. You can get these special offers and this free list by going to wp-tonic. Com/difference. Com. Wp-tonic. Com/deals, and you get all the goodies there. What more could you ask for? Probably a lot more, but that’s all you’ll get from that page. So, let’s go straight into it. So let’s go. I never did any of this. I want to point out, folks, I never did any of this strategy. I did not have a close friend, but somebody I knew. They wanted to do a podcast. They were my co-hosts for the first 100 episodes of my other podcast, which is up to, I think, over 940 podcasts there.
[00:04:13.740] – Jonathan Denwood
And that was almost eight years ago when he faded out. He left about 100 in. But he was the one that… He said, Oh, let’s do a podcast about WordPress. He would edit the podcast and put it up. I would have to find the topics. And I said yes, but there was no planning, folks. I didn’t even have a target audience. It was only about the start of this podcast and the start of my… I did a pivot, and I went into learning management and membership. Before that, it was just a general WordPress developer agency. So there was no planning, folks, and that’s a problem. What do you reckon, Kirk? That’s a problem.
[00:05:17.750] – Kurt von Ahnen
It is a problem, and I’m glad we decided to tackle this topic today because, like you, I was trapped in Southern California when I started podcasting. If I took the car to work, I knew I would be in there for an hour and a half sitting on the highway. I just started playing with podcast tools and recording concepts and ideas in the car. I didn’t think that people were going to listen. It was more like an exercise for myself. Over time, that morphed itself into the Mañana No Mas podcast. Mine was accidental as well.
[00:05:52.840] – Jonathan Denwood
You do not have a focused audience. We’ve discussed this endlessly during this podcast over the 100 episodes. Find your niche, and find out as much as possible about it. Being the expert, having all this knowledge is excellent, and you’ll be able to help people, but you’ve got to find a niche in this industry or this subject. Then you’ve got to understand as much as possible about that audience. Would you agree with that?
[00:06:29.220] – Kurt von Ahnen
More than I agree with it. It’s become a real driver for me. I mean, there’s been… Now I’m more and more focused in my production quality, and when I look at the planning, Jonathan, it’s not like someone will say, Oh, hey, I got this idea. Maybe I could be on your show. If it’s not the right fit, if it doesn’t fit the audience, then the answer is no. I mean, it’s just not. And I’ll refer them to other shows or whatever. You have to, and this sounds harsh, but there comes a time where if you take it serious and you want to succeed and grow within the strategy you’ve picked for yourself, you have to make decisions along the way and be focused.
[00:07:06.760] – Jonathan Denwood
I’ll put things back to front. I’ve already started about finding a target audience, but I jumped one topic, which is pod fading. I mentioned it in the introduction. This is a term, almost 80% of people that start a podcast, they stop doing the podcast in less or up to 10 episodes, and then they stop. And that covers about 80 %. I think there’s an enormous amount of podcasts out there. I think there’s over a million, but almost 80 % of them only did less or only 10 episodes, and they stopped. An enormous amount of those million plus podcasts are not active. And they did less or up to 10 podcasts. Are you surprised by that, Kurt?
[00:08:07.870] – Kurt von Ahnen
I’m really surprised it was only 10. I remember when you were on my show, we made a quip about that, and you said, Oh, yeah, well, congratulations. You’re at 100 episodes when a lot of people never get over 10. And I thought 10 was low. But then I remembered, let’s talk about regular business. How many people start a business and follow through and do it? It’s hard work. And I think people get in and the first couple of episodes are easy because you think you’ve got all these great ideas. And then after you talk about things for a few hours, you realize, oh, crud, I’ve got to do some planning. I’ve got to do some research. I’ve got to put work in in order to get a sample out. I think that’s where we see a lot of people drop off.
[00:08:50.330] – Jonathan Denwood
It is quite surprising. I looked at these figures about a year ago. I didn’t When I was planning to do this particular episode, I didn’t relook at them. I’m having that at the time, but I don’t imagine they’ve changed much. I would imagine it got worse, actually. Who’s this podcast for? Finding the target audience. What are going to be the key topics? I feel sometimes we repeat ourselves on these podcasts, but I don’t think it’s true. I think we’ve managed to have a diverse amount of topics, but there are some key themes that we keep touching on. I don’t think there’s a problem with that because the key themes that we keep are really important. By joining Zoom Masterminds, the Lifter LMS Mastermind, joining other groups, I see the same mistakes and the same topics coming up all the time. Would you agree with that, Kurt?
[00:10:10.410] – Kurt von Ahnen
Yeah, and it’s going to be a cycle that never stops, honestly, because as more people enter into a marketplace or enter into a circle, those same fresh needs always resurface. Just like sports, just like athletics, we have master the basics. We have to get back to basic principles and founding points before we can go off and do fancy, wonderful things.
[00:10:39.330] – Jonathan Denwood
Yeah, especially with WordPress, folks, because with a SaaS software as a service like Kajabi, like Podio, like the dozen other ones that are in this sector, you have no choice. You just have to adapt your business model and your membership your community to what they offer. With WordPress, it’s one of its great strengths, but it’s also one of its great curses, is you’ve got this enormous amount of choice and flexibility, and people just get sucked into it, and they become a slave to it. The technology doesn’t become a slave to you. The technology is about you, helping you build a membership community website, not for to spend endless amounts of time looking at different plugins, and people just get sucked into it, folks. That’s one of the main things apart from building a decent business and income for myself. This is the one thing I want you from WP tonic to help people have the flexibility of WordPress, but don’t get sucked into this endless nightmare of looking for the best WordPress plugin or theme or whatever they’re looking for.
[00:12:02.010] – Kurt von Ahnen
And Jonathan, just break out the obvious in the conversation. This podcast is about podcasting, and what you’re talking about with WordPress is part of the same issue with podcasting. There’s a simple way to approach it. There’s the minimal viable product to launch a podcast, and then there’s all the fancy stuff that you can do with a podcast. And I think a lot of the failure, that 80 % failure rate is a lot of people, they get in, they try something, and then they go, Oh, I want to work on distribution, or I want to work on studio time, or I want to work on a fancy bumper intro. That’s when they start to go down this rabbit hole and maybe imposter syndrome takes over, maybe they think they’ll never be good enough, and they stop when they already had a minimal viable product they could have moved forward with.
[00:12:51.160] – Jonathan Denwood
You’ve just made a fabulous point there. Thank you for doing that, Kirk. Thank you for doing it. You’re so, Roger. Right, focused and right about that. It’s got a lot of similarities. There’s a lot of podcasting advice out there, folks, that encourages you to buy almost not quite professional studio quality equipment, but really encourages you to do that. And why do they do that, folks? They do it because they’re affiliates. They’ve got affiliates link, and they drive you to a $500 mic or a mixer or something, and they’re going to get 30% of that $500. It’s the same in WordPress. There’s a lot of people that YouTube channels and this and that, and they’re driving you to affiliate links. And there’s nothing… But be aware that that’s what they do. And you can get 80… I did my podcast with a mic that cost me… I’m going to be talking about it later on, so I’m not going to go into too much detail, but I bought a mic, and it’s only recently that I have upgraded, and I run my podcast for seven years on a very inexpensive mic compared to a lot of the other equipment that’s pushed So thanks for that.
[00:14:33.020] – Jonathan Denwood
So we covered, do your research, target audience, what are going to be your key topics, and then what is the format? And the format is there are structures that all podcasts adopt, and I’ve list them out. The interview. I do another podcast, and I’ll have some interviews on this podcast. My other podcast, which has been running much longer, which is the WP Tonic Show, which is mostly not totally, but it’s mostly interview-based. Kirk is my regular co-host on that one as well, and we interview people. We also do a roundtable, but we interview almost all the episode, and we have a monthly roundtable show. Another format is conversation. That’s basically you have a co-host, and you just talk about what’s going on in the industry or a topic similar to what we’re doing here in this podcast. It’s normally one or two other co-hosts, they’re regulars, and they have a conversation. Educational. That where you’re all podcast in some ways is educational, but it’s a much more focused about technique, about doing something. That’s normally better done on YouTube, because normally you want to show stuff. That’s hard to do in the format of just audio, but you can do it to some extent.
[00:16:28.530] – Jonathan Denwood
And then you got the solo, That’s just you talking. I’ve known some people that are really good. I can’t do it. I just can’t. I think you really got to script it out quite extensively if you’re going to do that. One of your favorites is a great solo podcaster, Rob Walling.
[00:16:49.620] – Kurt von Ahnen
Rob Walling does a lot of solo episodes. He really does. He’s phenomenal. His content is so valuable that he can fill that time himself.
[00:16:58.160] – Jonathan Denwood
Yeah, I think he has people that he works. He works, he has a whole team, and they script it all out for him, and they discuss it. There’s a lot of it. But he’s got about three or four full-time people. There’s just me here, folks. I do all the donkey work. And Kirek helps out a little bit, but it’s all down to me, isn’t it, Kirek?
[00:17:21.370] – Kurt von Ahnen
Really is.
[00:17:22.200] – Jonathan Denwood
All right. I don’t think I do a bad job, being it’s me doing it.
[00:17:26.230] – Kurt von Ahnen
No.
[00:17:27.640] – Jonathan Denwood
All right. Industry news. Where you talk about in our other podcast where we do a monthly roundtable show, we talk about the industry news and tech news. So my monthly roundtable show covers that. So these are formats, and you really got to choose. There are some others, but I think the five that I’ve outlined are the main ones. Would you agree, Kirk?
[00:17:58.940] – Kurt von Ahnen
I would, and I think one thing that is worth at least mentioning or bringing up in this conversation, Jonathan, is some people are listening to this and thinking maybe podcasting, but they’re not sure how to define what success looks like. Success doesn’t have to be driven by dollars and cents. It could be what’s your strategy? For instance, mine is I’m all about branding and establishing myself as an expert in my field, right? And exposing the circle of smart people that I know or associate with. So it wasn’t really about generating revenue. But depending on your strategy and your definition of success, the things we’ll talk about ongoing in this episode, you’ll see that maybe you think are more important than others. If your main goal is to sell advertising or sponsor space or generate revenue, you might have something else you deem as more of a priority than something else we talk about. Thanks.
[00:18:55.250] – Jonathan Denwood
Audience growth. How do you build your audience? Obviously, picking a niche and optimizing the title of the podcast, the thumbnail, pushing it to all the major podcasting networks like iTunes, Spotify, Google have changed a lot. They’re really promoting podcasting through YouTube. It doesn’t work that well, but they’ve changed their mobile platform. I think they closed it down. But iTunes is still big, Spotify is still big, and there’s some others as well. And pushing it to all these major podcasting platforms is important. Having good thumbnail artwork to promote your podcast. And then social media is important. This year, I think I’ve upped my game on that a bit. I’ve been pushing my other podcast and using mostly Twitter to promote the podcast, the other podcast and this one. Probably not doing a great job on Facebook. I’ve been pushing the Membership Machine Facebook Group more, and that hasn’t I haven’t grown as much as I hoped, but I still… I think I’ve been better in pushing it in the last few months, and hopefully, if I get better at it, that will start to see some more growth. And pushing it on LinkedIn. I’ve done a reasonable job.
[00:20:50.210] – Jonathan Denwood
I probably could do a better job. I’m struggling with time and energy and motivation. I have mixed feelings about social media. Other people… I just don’t want to get into arguments with people, but I’ve noticed other people managed to build their social media without getting into arguments. I think you can do it without avoiding it. I’m going to spend December thinking about it and building a strategy for the new year around that. Email list. I’ve got a small email list. I send a newsletter. I found no effective way of building it. I wish I can find an effective way to build it. It’s really important that you don’t need a mega list of thousands and thousands, but you do want to see methodologies. I probably need to build out more lead magnets, build out more stuff in 205 that encourages people to sign up and which I can promote the podcast as well. That’s probably something I need to think about.
[00:22:12.370] – Kurt von Ahnen
The email list, if we could just hit pause for a second on emails. I think this is one of the most misunderstood sections of our conversation today, because think of how many projects we get involved in, Jonathan, you and I, where people have zero list, nothing. And we’re building a CRM and a form tool and all the stuff in the back of their WordPress website for them. And a lot of them have nothing. They’re coming to the game with nothing. And you’re going to see things from influencers out there that are going to say, oh, use this link and drive traffic to it and make it. And it’s like, how? How does that happen? And I think what Jonathan said is really key there. You have to create focused niche down messaging that drives to some type of lead magnet that says, what’s in it for you? So if someone’s going to sign up and give you an email address, what’s in it for them? Are they getting a white paper? Are they getting access to an exclusive episode of content? I mean, you really got to work it out, and it’s not easy.
[00:23:16.750] – Jonathan Denwood
I’ve got one reasonable lead magnet on the WP tonic. I need to produce some others, but it takes some of the effort to work out, but I need to add a couple more. Email is really important, folks. If you need to have some decent lead, make it get… But on the other thing, you’ve got to get traffic to your website to convert, for them to convert and get these lead back. That’s a whole other topic. I’ve had a constant battle with Google in 2024. I’ve done two steps forward and then one step back, then two steps forward and one step back with Google in 2024. At the present moment, I’m in a real battle with Google at the present moment. Another area, going on other people’s podcasts and promoting your own podcast. I was planning to do that. I’ve totally failed on that, folks. I even I need to cut back my own podcasting, so it gives me the bandwidth to go on other people’s shows, or I’ve just found it really hard to motivate myself to do the donkey work of outreach to these people. It’s extremely time consuming finding the right people, finding the email, following through.
[00:24:55.630] – Jonathan Denwood
I’m making excuses, folks. I need to motivate myself and just do it. That’s another thing I’ve got to think of during Christmas and the new year because it’s really important. And share your podcast episodes. I’ve done a better job there as well. I think I’ve done a better job sharing the podcast than that.
[00:25:23.070] – Kurt von Ahnen
There’s a part two to that. Anyone that you interview on your podcast, anyone involved in the making of your podcast, also needs to agree to share and promote the podcast. When you have a guest- They do.
[00:25:35.410] – Jonathan Denwood
We had a guest on my other podcast about, not this week, last week, and she did a fabulous job sharing it, and it showed she actually They don’t share it. Most of the other guests, they’re getting exposure to about 4,000 downloads a month, so about 4,000 WordPress people. The majority of my guests do not, are not generous people, and it’s just the truth. They don’t share. Some, about 20% do, and it really shows, doesn’t it, Kurt? It does.
[00:26:10.730] – Kurt von Ahnen
You’ll see the spikes.
[00:26:12.480] – Jonathan Denwood
I probably need to It’s a difficult one. I can’t make them. Maybe I just need to bring it up a few more time in their face to motivate them a little bit more. Yeah.
[00:26:30.150] – Kurt von Ahnen
Yeah, because remember, they’re getting the benefit of exposure to your audience, and you’re putting the spotlight on them by interviewing them. Because when you have a show, when you’re interviewing people, it’s not about how great you are, you’re making how great the guest is. But the key to that, the key to that success and growth in your own podcast is the agreement that that guest will at least share it within their circles that exposes you to their circles.
[00:26:54.750] – Jonathan Denwood
Yeah, I think it’s me because I do do the work and I’m a plodder, but I don’t I am a bit tenacious, but I’m not pushy too much either. Sometimes I can come across as a bit pushy, but generally, I’m not. What do you reckon? Am I right about that or am I kidding myself?
[00:27:18.200] – Kurt von Ahnen
I think it depends on the situation. I remember that we were going to do that membership summit thing and getting people to share their involvement in that was very difficult for you back then.
[00:27:29.180] – Jonathan Denwood
I remember Well, I had health issues and also I’d taken other people’s sponsorship and I thought I had a responsibility. It wasn’t just my own money, and I take my responsibility seriously. Also, I was dealing with a major health problem, which I didn’t inform the people that were working with me. Then I was dealing with another set of problems that occurred at the last moment that really endeared me about the project. I think I had a few things on my plate in my defense, but I wasn’t aware of how stressed out I was getting.
[00:28:09.950] – Kurt von Ahnen
But I think what we’re driving to is there’s the work of sharing it yourself, but there’s also getting the commitment from your guests to share. If they don’t commit, maybe you need a different guest.
[00:28:19.460] – Jonathan Denwood
Well, on that, I brought in a consultant, and he had totally misled me. His whole business model was a scam. I’m not going to name names, but I had been warned about him. But I also did that because I thought I needed a consultant because I’d taken sponsorship, but he totally was a scam, and he totally misled me. So thanks for bringing up that joyous memory, Kirk. Sometimes we teach by sharing some of our-Thanks a lot for bringing up that joyous period in my life. You could always be like, No, I’m just teasing him. We’re going to go for our middle break now. In the second half, we’re going to be talking about the actual Software equipment, all the stuff that you need to know about, based on my experience, that will enable you to get into podcasting. We will be back in a few moments, folks. Three, two, one. We’re coming back. We’ve had a feast, a feast about how to start a podcast. I’ve also had a little joy about Kirk. I’ve teased him as well. But he teases me as well. I deserve it. Like I say, we’re going to be delving into the equipment.
[00:29:55.730] – Jonathan Denwood
But before we do that, I just want to point out that we’ve got a fabulous It’s a free resource. If you’re looking to build your membership website in the end of 2024 and the beginning of 2025, and let’s face it, you just need to do it, folks. You can Think about it until you’re debt, but you need to do it. And this is a great time to start your membership website. But we’ve got a great resource, and that’s the Membership Machine Show Facebook Group. It’s a mixture WordPress people and people like you trying to build a membership website. It’s totally free. If you’ve got any questions, any questions about that come up in the podcast, you can just join that and put the question in and me and Kirk will answer your question. So just go and join, folks, because it’s a totally free resource. You’d be bonkers not to join it. So let’s go into the equipment. Well, number one, you need a microphone. It’s like if you’re going to knock nails into wood, you need a hammer, don’t you? So the number one thing is a microphone. And basically, these The easiest route, you can record on your phone.
[00:31:18.670] – Jonathan Denwood
There’s wireless mics. There’s a lot of new equipment out there. But the three I’m going to be talking about here are the three that I think gives you the quality for the money and are the most easiest. The easiest route, if you’re going down a traditional mic, where you’re not going to use your phone or a wireless, is utilize a USB mic. There’s two ways of doing it: USB or utilizing a mic that needs a mixer, which is an external device. I wouldn’t go down the mixer route. I tried it when I upgraded a couple of months ago, and I found it painful. I just found it suck in time, and I don’t want to become an audio engineer. I have no aspirations to become one. I’m just looking for something that gives me decent sound. I’ve got an audio editor. He’s part of my He’s been with me for six years, and he edits audio, and he does a really good job. When you listen, I think he does an excellent job. Would you agree, Kurt?
[00:32:40.460] – Kurt von Ahnen
I would. I think it’s ironic that we’re talking about that experience while the podfather of WordPress is in the comments right now.
[00:32:48.360] – Jonathan Denwood
Is he?
[00:32:49.030] – Kurt von Ahnen
He says he’s busting out the popcorn for this one.
[00:32:53.110] – Jonathan Denwood
Who’s he? Oh, yes. Oh, Matt’s in the house. He’s the master. Matt is one of these His audio Nazi types, bless his heart. Every time he comes on my show, he criticizes my audio. He’s like the guy that I started off with my first 100. He was an audio nutsy as well. But Matt is balanced. He’s not a nut case. My first host of my podcast wasn’t totally with it, actually, Kirk. Start off with a USB. The first 6-7 years, I did it with an audio Technica AT200, and it cost between between $60 to $80. I did over a thousand hours of podcasting just with a $70 mic, and it was fine. I think until the end, my Mac, when I upgraded to my latest operating system, the sound quality started to go up, and that was more to do with the drivers. You haven’t got total precise control if you’re using a USB mic instead of a mixer board. But I don’t want to muck around with a mixer board. It’s got absolutely no interest for me. So I decided to upgrade. But my sound, until the end, It was pretty good with that $60 mic, wasn’t it, Kurt?
[00:34:34.810] – Kurt von Ahnen
Well, I would like to add that I am currently using a audio Technica microphone. Yeah.
[00:34:40.140] – Jonathan Denwood
Is it this one?
[00:34:42.140] – Kurt von Ahnen
You’re listening to a smooth jazz.
[00:34:45.020] – Jonathan Denwood
It sounds great, doesn’t it?
[00:34:47.140] – Kurt von Ahnen
It does a good job. It does a good job.
[00:34:48.750] – Jonathan Denwood
For the money.
[00:34:49.770] – Kurt von Ahnen
You got to watch your positioning and be in front of the mic and all the normal things that would be important. But I think what Jonathan’s talking about here is important. I started out recording through my phone, and then I tried one of those LaVell mics, LaVell. Lavell.
[00:35:06.680] – Jonathan Denwood
Lavell, yeah.
[00:35:07.890] – Kurt von Ahnen
Yeah, I tried one of those, and it sounded like I was talking out of a tin can. It was distracting how bad the audio was. Then I went to this ATR setup, AT. I don’t know if mine’s a 2005. I thought it was a 2500. Maybe it’s newer. But yeah, it’s made a world of difference in audio.
[00:35:28.110] – Jonathan Denwood
I think I wasn’t actually using this. There’s another one. I think I was using the one up from this. I’m not sure, but I’ve still got it. Then I was having some sound problems with, I think it was when I upgraded the operating system on my Mac, and it didn’t like… It was something to do with the driver, and especially how it was working with StreamYard, which we’re going to discuss later on. It just wasn’t working when I was having to muck around, and there’s nothing like having to muck with sound when you’re just starting a podcast. You got enough things to concentrate on. I looked to upgrade it, and the two that I… Like I say, I looked at some mics that needed a mixer or amplifier. I was just ampifier, and that didn’t really work for me. I looked at these two USB, and the two I was looking at was the Rode pod mic, which I in the end, did buy, and the Shore MV7. The Sure and Road are… One, Shore is an American company. I think they’re based on the outskirts of Chicago. Road is an Australian company, and they dominate the semi-professional professional audio market to a certain degree.
[00:36:57.250] – Jonathan Denwood
Road makes some really great equipment and mixers, and Sure, almost all the big podcasters use, generally, Sure mics, but they’re not using USB. They go with the external power mixer route. But the road I bought cost me a hundred dollars, and I’ve been really happy with it. I think the sound has been pretty good, isn’t it?
[00:37:30.720] – Kurt von Ahnen
Sounds been great, yeah. Then I think the Honorable mentioned- Does the Soundnut see that’s listening?
[00:37:36.780] – Jonathan Denwood
Does he agree? Does Matt agree, the Soundnuts? I’m already pulling your leg, Matt. He doesn’t reply. Maybe he’s busy. But the Sure, the Sure is really popular. The only thing with the Sure with these USB mics, and it’s about 230 got, is that they’ve got They’ve got some lights on the mic, and when you speak, they light up. And I don’t like that. I find that distracting when you’re watching people on YouTube and that. And a lot of people are doing an audio YouTube set up, and I find that distracting. So I decided to go with the road, and I’ve been really happy. Like I say, you find it on Amazon around just below $200, folks. But But like I say, you can start off with the… I would go the audio technique if I was starting out, and you can get a really good mic off Amazon. A lot of the time, they’re on special offer, and you can get it for $60, $70. A lot of people are doing a podcast YouTube, and they’re doing it. So A lot of people need a camera. You can use your phone, especially iPhone and then…
[00:39:09.820] – Jonathan Denwood
If you got a modern iPhone, the video camera is amazing. There’s loads of people, you put it on a stand and you connect it through your lightning connector, and you can use just your phone. The core It’s 4K, isn’t it? Out of a 14, 15, 16 iPhone, it’s 4K, isn’t it?
[00:39:40.430] – Kurt von Ahnen
My understanding, yeah. I’m an Android person myself.
[00:39:44.700] – Jonathan Denwood
Yeah. Well, They do some good phones in the Android world, don’t they?
[00:39:48.320] – Kurt von Ahnen
The takeaway with Android phones, just to bring in, if you’re going to do long-form content and lots of it, those Android phones can get really hot and overheat if you leverage them for a lot of video content. So something to pay attention to, although they do work. You can also use an Android phone, like a non-connected, free, unlocked phone as an auxiliary camera. You can do a multi-camera shoot and use your computer as a camera switcher, which is nice. You can change the angle.
[00:40:17.800] – Jonathan Denwood
I’ve got some technology and I bought it and I haven’t used it for over 18 months. I’m just about getting this stuff out up to a certain quality, but I I lock out a lot of stuff for one person. You can use a webcam. I’m using a professional camera, which I’m going to talk in a minute. I do have a backup and I use it for my one-to-one Zooms, and that’s a Logitech, and it’s a 4K Logitech, and you can get it. I’m not actually… Because the YouTube, I’m actually the recording software, the version I’m using it doesn’t give me 4K, but the equipment will It’s not the useful okay that I’m using. It’s the platform. But I do have a Logitech here, and I could set it up with a multi-camera if I wanted to, and maybe that’s something I need to actually get off my backside and do it. Because I’ve got the other equipment that would allow me to do it. You can use a webcam. Logitech is a load of other new players. There’s one called Opal. I think Logitech, they’ve been around a long time, and they do some of theirs, a 4K, go with that.
[00:41:54.040] – Jonathan Denwood
I use that for a number of years until I got a plopper DSL camera, a mirrorless camera, which is recording this now. You got webcams, and the last thing is a DSL or mirrorless camera. This is what I’m using now. I’m using a Canon M50 because I’ve had this camera now for about over two years. A lot of people in the podcast YouTube video using Sony now. It’s either Sony or Canon. There are some other like Nissan, and there’s a couple of other players, but Canon and Sony. A lot of people are using the Sony ZVE10, but that will cost you $700. The Canon, you can get for about $400. Body, these are just for the bodies. A lot of them do come with a camera kit, a lens kit. The problem is you’re not going to probably be able to use the lens kit that comes with the camera. The one I’ve got, I’ve got a lens that was specifically designed for this close-up. The one that’s most popular is the Sigma 16 millimeter. And that cost me $600. The camera cost me about $600, and the lens cost me $600. I tried every other lens because I didn’t want to cough up the $600, and I had to return them.
[00:43:44.060] – Jonathan Denwood
If you’re going to do this close-up, you’re going to probably have to buy the Sigma. If you’re buying the Sony, that’s going to probably cost you between 600 to 700, and the Sigma is going to probably cost that So you’re looking at $1,000, which is what I coughed up.
[00:44:05.750] – Kurt von Ahnen
If we could just be bold enough to drive back to one of our founding points, it’s awesome to have the equipment, and it’s awesome to evolve and grow. But when you’re getting started-You can do it with minimal. Minimal viable product, something that has your image and your audio and get going. Out of the two things, Jonathan, what do you think you found more value in? The audio or the video?
[00:44:27.930] – Jonathan Denwood
The audio can get almost 80% the quality with the audio technique, and you can get 80% of the video quality by using the Logitech 4K They got a bet, and that will probably cost you between $90 to $100. With the mic plus with the webcam, You’re probably getting 80%, and so you’re looking less than $200, and you’ll have a set up where you can just get going.
[00:45:10.860] – Kurt von Ahnen
If we’re going to be super practical and realistic about what we’re talking about here, that’s a more than acceptable investment, capitalization, especially because the equipment’s also going to be used in your business, Zoom calls and working remote and all those other things. It’s not a single purpose.
[00:45:28.180] – Jonathan Denwood
You’re going to need it anyway.
[00:45:30.370] – Kurt von Ahnen
Yeah, it’s not a single purchase expenditure.
[00:45:34.860] – Jonathan Denwood
How are you going to record your podcast? There are apps that you can put on your phone. You got to decide, is it going to be a pure audio recording, or are you actually going to video record it as well? Now, there are platforms that just do the audio. One that, there’s a number one, but one that’s been around quite a long time and has a track record is ZenCaster. It’s not the cheapest being that it only does audio, but the guy behind it, it’s a small start. Well, I think he does very well. I don’t think it’s small there. But it just does the audio and you It runs on Mac, PC. It runs on your phone. I think it’s got app for Android and iOS. It’s a cloud-based. It records It in the… And you can edit it. I think also gives you editing software as well. I haven’t personally used it, but I know a lot of podcasters that still use it and swear by it. I don’t because I’m doing a hybrid. I do the podcast, but also push it to YouTube, to LinkedIn, anywhere I can get audience, I push it to.
[00:47:11.210] – Jonathan Denwood
So if you’re just doing audio, look at ZenCaster. Hybrid of this, the next one is Riverside. I haven’t used it myself. You can start, by the way, ZenCaster, you can start for around $20 a month. Riverside, they are hybrid. They do what ZenCaster does, but they also provide the video side as well. And you can use to have your co-host record it. I don’t know if they do a live feed as well. I have to check. I should have checked that. They’re pushed by a lot of podcasting platforms, Riverside. I just haven’t used it. They got a free product. How crippled it is, I don’t know. The standard starts at $19 a month. So you You’ll be able to do the audio, and they provide audio editing tools, and they also provide video editing tools as well. So it’s a hybrid. The third one I’m using at the present moment is StreamYard. Until a couple of years ago, I was using Zoom. You can use Zoom for this as well, by the way. I wouldn’t recommend it, but if you’re paying for Zoom, the paid your coffee, which I do, it costs just under 150, and you can use it to do this.
[00:48:54.550] – Jonathan Denwood
The audio quality isn’t bad, and it’s app, you can download it. I found their method of pushing out live to be painful. When I was using it, sometimes it worked, sometimes it didn’t. That’s one of the reasons why I moved to StreamYard, because I got fed up with their live streaming methods. They just didn’t work with YouTube that well or the other social media platforms. That was a couple of years ago. I don’t know if they have improved that.
[00:49:34.390] – Kurt von Ahnen
I’m going to go, no.
[00:49:34.720] – Jonathan Denwood
No, it was painful. But if you’re just doing an audio and you’re downloading the video and you’re going to edit it, you could just utilize Zoom, folks. I know Matt, the sound that sees that if you’re still listening, it will not agree with me, because some people just don’t like the sound quality that comes out of Zoom, because they do compress it quite a I’m using StreamYard, and I’ve been happy with it, but the problem is they got bought out about a month, two months, and they’ve doubled the prices. I’m on annual plan, one of their lower annual plans, and I put in my Canada when it runs out, and I’ll probably be jump in ship because they doubled it from slightly under $30 a month And I was paying yearly, and they’ve doubled it to slightly under $60 a month, and it’s not worth $60 a month. And they’re losing people left, right, and center. And if you go to StreamYard’s website, they’ve removed all the pricing. It’s only buried somewhere, and that’s all you need to know, that you can’t find the pricing on the homepage. You literally got to dive in into the thing, and they’ve just doubled everything, Kurt.
[00:51:05.670] – Kurt von Ahnen
Yeah, but it works.
[00:51:11.200] – Jonathan Denwood
It works.
[00:51:12.020] – Kurt von Ahnen
That’s the hardest thing. It’s like, it’s I’m on the plan where I can have more than three channels, so I can broadcast to five channels at a time if I want. What I really like about StreamYard is you can set up bumpers and trailers, you can have videos and introductions play before your interview. I mean, you can almost… If you ran a live show and weren’t dependent upon post-edit, you could produce the whole show in StreamYard if you were prepared and had a strategy.
[00:51:41.120] – Jonathan Denwood
Yeah, I could. They have got a major competitor, and that’s Is it EvMax? Evmax?
[00:51:48.220] – Kurt von Ahnen
I just say Evmux, but I don’t know if I’m right or wrong.
[00:51:52.210] – Jonathan Denwood
I wish they could just choose a bloody word for the company that’s pronounceable. A lot of people jump in shit. They got a basic plan for ’25, and they got the Pro for ’49. There’s a number of experts out there. You’re going to have to do a comparison. One that I might look at because I’m a Mac person is ECAM, because I know a lot of people that got fed up with StreamYard and their doubling of their pricing are looking at Ecam, but it’s a Mac only and it’s an app, but it does a lot of stuff. That’s standard at 20 a month or Pro 40. The two, Eve, Mac, however you pronounce it, or eCamp, are probably the two that I’m going to be looking at. I know Matt has been looking because He’s got a big plan with StreamYard and they hammered him because like I say, they’ve doubled all their plans. That’s one of the things why you don’t want to use these sasses, really. That’s the strength of WordPress, because these sasses always get and they always hit you in the end.
[00:53:03.570] – Kurt von Ahnen
But I will go one step further in the conversation. As you know, Jonathan, I’m an early adopter of some things, and I’ll sometimes take chances. I have signed up for three or four different supposed webinar interview, magic tools that we’re going to take the headaches out and not a single one of them produced. Not a single one of them. When you try something off-brand, I think it’s important when you’re listening to this show show, Jonathan is sharing the best, the crema-cram.
[00:53:35.190] – Jonathan Denwood
They’re only my choices. There’s loads of these platforms, loads of cameras. I’m just telling people the stuff that I’ve looked at and I’ve researched and I thought, I’m not telling you I’m right. I’m just telling you, folks, this is the stuff I’ve looked at.
[00:53:50.290] – Kurt von Ahnen
No, but you’re focused on mainstream options, and there’s all these other distractions, and a lot of these distractions don’t work for what you’re trying to produce. If you try something off-brand or new or strange, try to keep one of the foundational pieces still in your arsenal so that when time comes to execute, you can still execute.
[00:54:11.120] – Jonathan Denwood
On we go. You’re going to need somewhere to host your podcast because you don’t have it. You can just push it from your computer, but it’s a nightmare, folks. I say that I think there’s probably software, apps for your Mac and apps for your PC that then you can set up and then it will push it to iTunes, Spotify. I can’t be bothered with that. I use a hosting provider and there’s with the auditor, the audio editor, like StreamYard and the others, there’s loads of these hosting providers, and they push it to these different platforms, and they push it through what is called our RSS feed. I’m not going to delve in that. I’ve got two Dupilate feeds on iTunes, and I’ve spent the last three months trying I find a persuade iTunes to get rid of one of them, and they keep saying, Well, if you could log in with the second one and provide us with the unique ID code of that feed, we get rid of it. Well, the problem is, I don’t know where the feed came from, and I haven’t got the login details because I don’t even know where it came from.
[00:55:37.520] – Jonathan Denwood
So I’ve given up on them because they don’t seem to understand English, or they don’t want to. So that can happen, but it’s happened to me because I jumped one of the ones I’m talking about to the one I’m using at the present moment. And I use Kastos, and I’ve been happy with it. I know there’s a load of new players, but I’ve just been happy with it. I’ve stuck with it. He hasn’t doubled his prices, either, the guy that owns this company. It works for me. There’s other people that are using Riverside. I think a lot of people… Well, I say that, I’m not sure, Because Castos actually pushes Riverside as the editor. They don’t do the hosting, but they’re in partnership with Riverside, actually, Castos. Well, they got a business arrangement, but they got two plans. They got a $19 essential Growth 49 Pro. I think I’m on the Growth. I’m not sure. I’ve been happy with them. The one I jumped ship from was Lipson. Lipson has been around for donkeys years. They price gouged you. They were like the one or two only players in town. They had a terrible interface, which they never bothered to update for Donkeys years.
[00:57:16.790] – Jonathan Denwood
They, in my opinion, they gouged people a bit. Then players like Kastos and other people came on the market, and they’ve revamped their interface now. It’s a much more modern interface. They offer a load… They’ve got a very elaborate pricing structures. I think they’ve simplified that now, and they definitely load their pricing. But moving from Lipson to Kastos, That’s why I think I’ve ended up with this ghost feed on iTunes. It’s down to that. But I can’t be bothered spending any more time on it. In six months time, I’ll probably have another go at it, try and sort it out. And then last one is Blueberry, and they’ve been around donkeys years as well. They’re all around the same prices, these people. There’s a load of other people that have entered this as well. I could probably do a whole show on that, but I think it would be a bit boring. I’m just talking about the three main ones that I have some knowledge on, but you need to do your own research, folks, because there’s a load of these players. There’s some, be wary, though, of those that are often free. People being written on the back side because there’s been a number of these hosting that offered free accounts, and then they’ve decided to close the whole thing down or close the free thing, and you got to move the whole thing, be a bit wary.
[00:59:01.170] – Jonathan Denwood
I don’t think… Don’t go down the… Try the free account just to see if you like it, but then pay for it because you don’t want to mess around with your RSS feed. Oh, blimey. That was a mouthful. What do you reckon? I think we come to the end of the show. What’s the last thing you want to point out to the audience before we end this? Because I think I’ve been talking a lot. But I think I’ve done a reasonable job, haven’t I?
[00:59:26.980] – Kurt von Ahnen
Yeah, but I think the overall message for this episode is if you have any interest at all in podcasting, pursue it. Definitely pursue it. Have a plan, have a strategy. Define for yourself ahead of time what your format will be and what your version of success looks like. And from there, figure out how much of an investment do you want to make, how much time is it worth, what effort will you put in, and what’s your schedule going to be. We didn’t talk about schedules. Jonathan is very, very organized every Thursday, every Friday. Other podcasters, like my Mañana Nama’s show, is whenever something of interest pops up.
[01:00:08.660] – Jonathan Denwood
And so you have to know what’s your version of success.
[01:00:14.180] – Kurt von Ahnen
My version of success looks different than Jonathan’s version of success. The goals are different. So think it through and then execute. You got to execute. Jonathan, I’m just going to say it, and maybe I’m speaking for others or maybe I’m speaking out of turn, but we We talk to a lot of people that have an idea. We talk to a ton of people that have an idea.
[01:00:38.180] – Jonathan Denwood
Ideas achieve; it’s the execution that matters.
[01:00:41.370] – Kurt von Ahnen
And we talk to very few people who will buckle down, do the work, and get it done. If you think it’s easy, you’ve already made the first mistake. You have to put in the work, have a strategy, come prepared, and enjoy the fruits of the labor.
[01:00:59.680] – Jonathan Denwood
I also want to point out that you won’t get a massive audience. The only way you’ll get traction is to look at a niche. It’s like everything we said: you won’t get a massive audience because it’s a niche. If you think you’re going to get a rogue or some of these other massive podcasts, it isn’t going to happen. Well, it’s doubtful it’s going to happen.
[01:01:24.780] – Kurt von Ahnen
You’re famous from another avenue.
[01:01:26.860] – Jonathan Denwood
Yeah, but it’s still worth it because I was listening to Professor Galloway’s Protegy podcast. He’s very influential and highly successful. He says that when people are on all the legacy media, radio, and television, run an excellent podcast network, do about four or five different podcasts, are enormously wealthy individuals, and are highly successful, He said when people approach him, he knows which medium they’ve approached and how they found out about him. They approach him differently, depending on whether they’ve seen him on legacy media or YouTube. He said they approach him like they’re their friends if they’re listening to his podcast. They’ve had this profound relationship and never met at all. Or When they’re on YouTube, it’s like they know them, but it’s more casual. So, these different mediums build a different relationship with the audience. The main problem with podcasting is it’s not easy for people to give you feedback. That’s one of the reasons I like to do it live: it provides a chance for people to join us and give us… Sometimes, they join us depending on the guests.
[01:02:56.410] – Jonathan Denwood
Other times, hardly anybody joins, and other people are more successful in getting an audience. It’s something else I need to think about why I’m failing because I know a lot of my audience is very passionate about the other podcast, and I’m getting good feedback about this podcast as well. If you want to support the show, please join. Please join the Membership Machine Show Facebook Group and leave your comments on that because we love your feedback. If you’ve got any problems or topics you want us to cover, tell us in that group, and I will consider it, and we’ll probably do a show on it. So, Kirk, what’s the best way for people to join? I’d love to learn more about you and what you’re up to, Kirek.
[01:03:48.220] – Kurt von Ahnen
LinkedIn’s the jam. I’m on LinkedIn almost every day, one way or another, and I’m the only Kirek von Ahnen on LinkedIn. So, if you can make the connection there, it will be recommended that you follow me and hit the connect link. We’ll connect person to person and maybe have a conversation.
[01:04:04.610] – Jonathan Denwood
That’s fantastic. We’ll probably do a show. I might be traveling next week, or it will probably be our last show because we’ll have Thanksgiving after that. We won’t be doing a show that week. Then, in December, I’m taking a break. We might do a show next week because I might be traveling or unable to make it. But hopefully, we’ll see you. If not, it’ll probably be in the new year. Happy New Year. I’m not looking forward to it that much, but I won’t go into that. Well, business-wise, I think it will be a good year for WP tonic, but I’m talking about other factors that I will not bore you with. We will be back soon, folks. Bye.
WP-Tonic & The Membership Machine Facebook Group
Why don’t you sign up and be part of the Membership Machine Show & WP-Tonic Facebook group, where you can get all the best advice and support connected to building your membership or community website on WordPress?
Facebook Group
