Bill Conrad Founder of National Association of Podcasters
We Interview founder of National Association of Podcasters Bill Conrad who also was my co-host of the WP-Tonic show for its first 90 episodes. Bill is now the founder of the National Association of Podcasters and has done a number of presentations at Wordcamps on how to use podcasting to build your business and reputation online. Also bill offers a number of inexpensive courses connected to helping people get into podcasting.
Our episode this week is sponsored by INTELLIGENCEWP.Finally, an analytics plugin that provides valuable metrics and results that increase your leads.INTELLIGENCEWP.
The National Association of Podcasters, NAOP.US is a trade association and is organized, founded and funded by new media businesses and members. We are in the process of creating bylaws, forming a board of advisors & directors and hiring an executive director. The NAOP.US participates in public relations activities, advertising, education, political donations, lobbying, and publishing.
ill Conrad and his wife, Karen Conrad, have owned and operated California real estate, construction, and marketing companies for over 27 years.
Today, Bill lives in Reno, Nevada, and spends most of his time working in new media marketing and digital services to include online training. Additionally, he is the founder of the National Association of Podcasters. His wife is a real estate broker with Chase International in Reno, Nevada and First Realty, California.
His main projects are podcastershome.com, timelinesofsuccess.com and karenconrad.com (a real estate team) and (firstrealtycalifornia.com & firstrealtynevada.com).
Additionally, Bill served as an Officer in the Active and Reserve, a city councilman and Vice-mayor, City of Modesto, California and worked as an RMLO (Responsible Managing Licensed Officer) for First Team Construction and Conrad Pacific Construction; He is a licensed California general contractor and real estate broker.
Bill Conrad is a 1980 graduate of the United States Military Academy (USMA) at West Point and a 2010 graduate of the Human Terrain System (HTS) at Fort Leavenworth, Kansas.
His most recent active duty assignments were in 2007, and 2009 where he served in Afghanistan as a Civil Military Operations Officer, S9, with the 173rd ABCT, 1st MEB and Engineering Officer for 7 SPG(A).
In 2010 and 2012, Bill served two tours as a GS 15 in Afghanistan assigned to the French Army in Kapisa and as a Hunan Terrain Team Leader and IJC (ISAF Joint Command) in Kabul as Director, Civil-Military Integration/Human Terrain Team Leader.
Bill’s military qualifications and schools are Infantry Officer Basic Course, Infantry Mortar Platoon Leaders Course, Airborne School, Ranger School, Special Forces Officer Qualification Course, Air Assault School, Army Flight School, Aviation Officer Advanced Course and SERE High Risk. He is a graduate of USMA with a BS in engineering and a minor in political science. Past military service: Regular Army, Air National Guard (Pilot & Civil Engineer), Air Force Reserve (Civil Engineer) and Army Reserve (Civil Affairs). Highest clearance, TS SCI (last adjudication Nov 2010).
Bill’s cell phone is: 775-527-4276
Full Transcript of the Interview with Bill
Jonathan: Hi there folks. Welcome back to the WP-Tonic show. The is episode 248. And it’s an episode just after Thanksgiving so you’ve probably stuffed yourself with turkey and had your family around. Kim, my normal co-host, she’s recovering from her Thanksgiving. And in this episode, we’ve got our old friend of the show, an old co-host of mine, Bill Conrad. So, Bill, would you like to introduce yourself to the audience?
Bill: I’m Bill Conrad from Podcasters’ Home and National Association of Podcasters. Jonathan was the very very first person who I actually crossed over and trained in Podcasting. We did about 90 shows together. We started a couple different podcasts. Both are very successful. And you’ve had sponsors. You’ve had on Mail-Right. So I’m really happy. We’ve learned a lot. Jonathan really got me going on WordCamp and WordPress. We’ll talk about that during this episode too.
Jonathan: That’s great. And before we go any further, I’d like to mention our sponsor which is IntelligenceWP. And what is IntelligenceWP? It’s a bit of software that helps you deal with Google Analytics. Yes, that thing that you put on clients websites or your own and you have a tendency never to look at it again. But with IntelligenceWP, it offers an interface that makes sense of a very complicated bit of software. So go to the WP-Tonic website. Have a look at the sponsored link we have on there. It’s a free plugin. You can download it, install it. And they also offer training. They will help you get it set up if you need it. Like I say, it’s a great bit of software. So go out and find more about it. Well, thanks Bill for coming on the show. Like I say, when I started WP-Tonic, Bill was my co-host. My co-host for almost 90 episodes. And Bill’s continued his career in Podcasting and you’ve started a new association, haven’t you? The association of National Association of Podcasters. Isn’t that right Bill?
Bill: Yeah. You know what? There was no National Association for Podcasters. And a couple of years ago, I had a VIP ticket to the National Association of Broadcasters thanks to Blubrry and Todd Cochrane which I deeply deeply appreciate, who are great Podcasters and servers. And it got me thinking back then of the idea of being separate and setting an association up. There’s a lot of elements. There’s conferences. But there’s no association. But it’s a lot of work, a lot of time and it won’t happen overnight. And so, sometime, we’re looking in June, late June, excuse me, October, early October, September, October, of actually having a conference here in Reno, Nevada to get together and get the Board together and put everybody in place. There’s going to be a cost and so on and so forth. By the way, before we go on Jonathan, I want to say you did a great job with that introduction, your sponsorship. You’ve really taken it to the nth degree. You’ve consistently put out two Podcasts a week for as long as I’ve known you for 3 or 4 years now. I haven’t done the same. I’ve been so busy with other elements. I have three Podcasts. But we don’t put them out each week. One’s a fun Podcast in Real Estate which is my Timelines interview which we have a lot. You’ve been on a few of those. We have EO Secrets which is my fun Podcast too which is basically teaching people money online. And then, finally, I’ve got Meet the Voter which you’ve been on too. So I do those for other organizations. Plus I have some organizations I support. I’m so busy helping people on the backside with vlogging and Podcasting. We’re doing a lot of vlogging now too.
Jonathan: That’s great. So the National Association of Podcasters, what do you hope to achieve with that and what do you hope when people join it and they can join now, what do you hope they will get from it, Bill?
Bill: Well, National Association, I’ve got something called Podcasters’ Home which I will continue to develop and basically learning how to Podcast. I’ve got a free Podcast course out there. But I want to mix that content of learning free with the National Association. So when people join, they’ll have some training to get up and running. But the bottom line is to create a conference every year. And then, there are already Podcasting Awards, but have a National Association of Podcaster Awards. That’s really is bringing people together and keeping the cost down too. The other thing, let’s talk about WordCamp. WordCamp has got a great model. So maybe someday putting it more like the model of WordCamp.
Jonathan: I think also you’ve been talking about the National Association of Podcasters at WordCamps, haven’t you? So I think you’ve been doing some presentation at some WordCamps. How’s that gone Bill?
Bill: I absolutely love it. Going to WordCamps, I’ve always enjoyed WordCamps. 3 or 4 years ago when I first started studying WordPress and going with you to WordCamps, it was kind of fun because we had the Podcast and people recognized us at the WordCamps. So we got to be known fairly well at the WordCamps from the Podcast. And then, I evolved into speaking about Podcasting and vlogging because they have a business track now. And when you speak, you get to know who are the key people in WordPress. So at the speakers’ realms, you really find out that inside information. Plus, you just meet really neat people around the country.
Jonathan: So I attended WordCamp Sacremento and you were one of the presenters there and you were talking about Podcasting and you seemed to get a fantastic amount of people at that presentation. So what were some of the questions that were asked that people were asking you around Podcasting?
Bill: That’s a good point. That was fun. Everyone stayed and it was fun. I created a Podcast out of that. I actually used an iPhone. I told people how you can create a Podcast relatively fast by using your iPhone and just getting in the audio up and we went through the steps. And I noticed that almost everybody stayed. And I put the camera behind me so you could see the presentation. It is on EO Secrets and I think parts are on Timelines too. I forgot which episode. I think it’s episode 6 and 7 on EO Secrets. But what questions they ask? They’ll ask like, the RSS Feed is technically is the biggest question. The server, how you get it up? And then the connection to iTunes. Those are the two top asked questions. Very seldom do I find people talking about like how to produce or how to create content. It’s mostly the technical side of getting it working. What I’ve found is most people put a lot of time into creating a beautiful Podcast as best they can, but they miss the technical side. And then they get frustrated and they never get their Podcast up. So that’s why I teach, do a couple 2-minute Podcasts and they learn the technical side. So when I do that, they can understand it. And then we also talk about WordPress and what is the best type of blog or vlog or way to put your Podcast up on WordPress. Because if you have a Podcast, you really need a webpage to drive people to so they can get more content, more information. And if ever want to monetize, there’s a lot of ways to monetize. That’s another thing. People will want to know how to monetize Podcasts or how it can help them with their WordPress Agency.
Jonathan: Yeah. I think there’s a lot of interest in Podcasting. But also it seems to be really mixed up with video, doesn’t it and YouTube as well, doesn’t it to some extent? There’s a crossover maybe.
Bill: Yeah. Well, I call it vlogs. First of all, when I teach, I teach, take your phone, do a 2-minute little recording of yourself, a vlog or a couple people talking about just a couple different issues about what you want to do with your Podcast, things of that nature. Take that, upload it onto YouTube. Now, you use to be able to do a little bit of editing on YouTube, but they’ve taken that out. I don’t know if you know that or not.
Jonathan: No. Well, that’s surprising really.
Bill: Yeah. They took it out. It’s gone. YouTube is constantly changing. So anyway, put it on YouTube. If you have a Mac, you can just use a couple different editing software that are available that work real well to turn the front and the back and then stick it on YouTube. And then download it from YouTube because YouTube conditions the sound. Pull that out. There’s a real quick inexpensive little free app you can download onto your Mac and it’ll rip out the MP3 and it’ll do it at 128. You can set it lower. And then take that. Now upload it to an RSS Feed and we’ll show you how to upload it to the RSS Feed. It’s not that difficult. You can actually learn everything. There’s only about 30 minutes worth of content to learn how to do all this. So literally, you can be up and running in about 4 hours with two or three little short Podcasts.
Jonathan: And that’s a good way of learning it, isn’t it?
Bill: Yeah. Absolutely.
Jonathan: Because I think like most things you obviously want a certain standard, but you also need to get it out and keep doing it, don’t you?
Bill: So why would someone in WordPress want to learn to Podcast?
Jonathan: I have no idea, Bill.
Bill: Well, you did. Why did you want to learn?
Jonathan: That was English sarcasm folks.
Bill: See, I don’t get it. I still don’t get it.
Jonathan: No. You’ve just not been exposed to it for a while actually. He prefers the French anyway.
Bill: Yeah. True. True.
Jonathan: Yeah. He does. He really does. Well, it’s a good way of individualizing yourself in a very crowded marketplace. I think on of the things you’ve got to be aware of, it will take up a certain bandwidth of your time. If you’re not really that committed to it, it’s probably going to take up a bit more time than you think it’s going to. There’s ways of getting around that like doing them in batches. I personally chose not to do the episodes in batches. I do a weekly show and we do it live. But that’s my choice. I try and have a set pattern that we do it on the same day at the same time. That helps. Another factor Bill is meet new friends. You introduce yourself to people in your industry or an industry that you’re trying to build a reputation in. And I’ve got to say, that’s one of the highlights for me personally of doing the shows is all the excellent people I’ve met through it.
Bill: Yeah. Me too. Absolutely. The people I’ve met in WordPress specifically have been excellent. That came through Mail-Right.com, the Mail-Right show. Excuse me, not Mail-Right.
Jonathan: You’re mixing the shows up, Bill.
Bill: I have so many Podcasts in my head. WP-Tonic.
Jonathan: I actually do another Podcast show folks, but this is the WP-Tonic show.
Bill: You know why I said that? I was thinking about Mail-Right when you were talking because you use it for two shows. You use it both for . . .
Jonathan: I’m bonkers really, aren’t I Bill?
Bill: But Mail-Right is your SaaS product.
Jonathan: Yeah. Get back to the, so you’re planning to do a lot more WordCamps, aren’t you Bill, you 2018, aren’t you?
Bill: Yeah. At least 4 to 6. I’m picking those out. Possibly, we’ve got to look at everything, but some of the bigger WordCamps and maybe a smaller one. Really like, definitely Sacremento again, Las Vegas is a blast. Like to get down in Orange County, LA and maybe get out to the East Coast and to Miami. And the other really good one too, there’s a lot of great ones out there, but I understand Phoenix is pretty good.
Jonathan: Yes. I understand it’s a great one as well. So, as you’ve done the WordCamps and the presentation, which particular areas do think you’re going to, because obviously, you try and swap out the presentations a bit so they’re a little bit different, each one of them. So which area do you think you’re going to, which part of your presentation you think you’re going to adapt and cover in a little bit more detail?
Bill: Well, what I’ll do is, I still want to be able to always show how you can create a Podcast relatively fast. Go through the slides. Always work at making it more streamlined. Since you met me we’ve been evolving. Remember we used to record everything on a laptop and we used to live stream it? We live streamed stuff, got the recording and took the sound out right from the live stream. We’ve done Podcasts like that and they came out well. We used to have a mixer and now we have the Zoom here for this type. This is the first time you’ve done one of these, this type of Podcast, right?
Jonathan: Oh, yes. And we’re actually doing this from Bill’s house which you’ll be able to see.
Bill: The War room.
Jonathan: What he calls his War room which you’ll be able to see on the video of this Podcast folks.
Bill: Make sure you go on over to Mail-Right.com and check out, what episode is this?
Jonathan: This is 248.
Bill: Wow. 248. And I would guess this is going to be 270 something on Timelines. And it’ll be episode 8 or 9 or EO Secrets.
Jonathan: Yeah. I think we’re going to go for our break folks. We’ll be back in a few moments. We’re going to be talking about more about Podcasting, video, multimedia really. So come back and it should be a fascinating conversation with my former co-host Bill Conrad.
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Jonathan: We’re coming back, folks. I’ve had a great chat with my former co-host Bill Conrad. So, I miss Blab actually Bill, even though it was crazy, crazy, crazy product. For our listeners, before Blab imploded it was way of doing video and audio Podcast or general interviews and it was a bit like Facebook Live, but on steroids really. Do you think that was a good explanation of what Blab was or do you think you can add some more to that Bill?
Bill: Yes. It had four people. When Blab first came out the first few months, it was the perfect platform for Podcasting. Just about perfect. The sound was good. I didn’t even have hacks. Then all of a sudden you started hearing hack, hack, hack, hack. They were probably reducing their bandwidth or trying to do something. But it was so easy. And when I was down at Las Vegas WordCamp, I had a lot of people come up to me and said, “We used to stalk you on Blab”. I mean, literally a lot of people. I spent a lot of time on Blab and I thought that was the future. I actually built a course for Blab and then they blabbed out.
Jonathan: They imploded, didn’t they?
Jonathan: Basically, I think they were eating up a lot of bandwidth, weren’t they?
Bill: Yeah. I understand a $14 million experiment.
Jonathan: $14 million.
Bill: Yeah. That cost a lot of money for somebody and they never monetized it.
Jonathan: No. No, they didn’t. I think they were getting a lot of professional Podcasters using it, but they weren’t getting enough normal people to use it effectively, were they?
Bill: I don’t know how many Podcasters. Actually, some started seeing it could be used. Early on in the Podcast community, some people saw it as the future. Some didn’t. Some of the most successful Podcasters don’t do video. They do strictly audio. And audio’s a lot easier to tell the truth unless you edit it. But video adds another reach. It allows other people to find you in different places. And I’ve had very good luck with video. Our numbers are in the thousands in the video. We beat most Podcasters on Video.
Jonathan: I was going to ask you what are your thoughts about Facebook Live because obviously recently you could only do it using mobile unless you utilized third party software. But I know now that they’ve introduced it to the desktop. Do you think Facebook are going to, in a way kind of go into the territory of what Blab was?
Bill: I think so in some aspects. Now, Jonathan, you’re using Zoom which I recommended against early on, but Zoom has improved. So you use Zoom almost exclusively, right?
Jonathan: For my listeners folks, Zoom.us is a video conferencing platform, a webinar platform and a couple of other things all rolled into one. I mostly use it because I’m doing a number of Podcasts per week and just the scheduling functionality and you can record it on the Cloud, record it on a Cloud storage area that Zoom provides. And it separates the video and audio in two separate. And also, you can push it either YouTube Live or Facebook Live at the same time. So it’s killing multi birds with one stone in a way and that’s one of the main reasons why I use it, Bill.
Bill: Yeah. You know, all the time I’ll be working and you’ll pop up on Friday, I think it’s Fridays when you do your Round Table.
Jonathan: It’s Wednesdays and Fridays.
Bill: Wednesdays and Fridays.
Jonathan: Friday is the main show you watch, isn’t it?
Bill: Yeah. The Round Table. I love the Round Table. I know everybody on the Round Table. So I always catch it. I put nasty comments on Facebook.
Jonathan: You do. He stalks me, folks. He stalks me.
Bill: So it pops up. So it’s really easy and it’s very clear. But let’s talk about Zoom. You can only do so much. But Zoom has become a fairly good platform now for doing exactly what you’re doing. They didn’t have enough definition and sound, enough deepness in the sound. But now they do and you’re having success with it. And it saves time, doesn’t it?
Jonathan: I used to call Bill the sound Nazi because he really does. But you’ve got to have the sound to a certain standard, especially the host. I think when you’re interviewing you can get away with the guests being slightly not up to professional standard, but definitely the host. If it’s really poor quality, I think the listeners soon give up on it, don’t they?
Bill: Yeah. The important part of the Podcast is first 2 or 3 minutes of the Podcast. Now, you did a commercial early on. That’s fine as long as it’s an interesting commercial and it’s your sponsor and people understand that. But the first 2 or 3 minutes, you have to have good and you’ve got to get them involved in the Podcast. That’s where later on the content comes to be really important. The topic, the issues and getting them listening. So once you start listening, people will continue to listen to Podcasts, that I find. So you grab their attention initially.
Jonathan: So, Bill, how do you see this in 2018 this world of Facebook Live, YouTube Live, YouTube itself and Podcasting? How do you see this going in a way?
Bill: I think it’ll really work out. More and more I think you’re going to have local shows. Now, yours is not a local show. Yours is WordPress. So it goes everywhere. But I think you’re going to find other ways to work with Podcast. So let’s say you’re a WordPress Developer in a community. If you have the or Podcasters’ Home and you have your own little Podcast or the concepts of Podcasting, you could show people in your community how to actually set up a little Podcast because of our course. And then how to tie that with their website and do YouTube Live. So it’s more than just that website. You’re sort of an Agency. You’re a WordPress Agency, but you almost have to be a like a Marketing Advisor Agency too. Does that make sense? So I think a way that people in WordPress can actually monetize by helping their community understand how all these things are connected. Like the API concept is kind of complicated for most people. How to take on to WordPress and maybe put your iframe in there so they can see live the YouTube version if you’re doing a Google Plus Hangout or the Facebook, how to tie them all together. So I think the study of this area is important. Facebook’s going to continue to do more and more video. Video is the future.
Jonathan: Well, you know, it’s an interesting area and I thought you were to the guy to, I think obviously Facebook are trying to take on YouTube. I think they’re still struggling to find the right format and maybe that format is the kind of Blab model.
Jonathan: What I thought was so fascinating about Blab was not only the free video conferencing element of it. But the way you met new people and had new discussions through Blab which YouTube and also at the present moment Facebook, they’re not quite there with the kind of interaction and the ability to have new conversations that you found on Blab.
Bill: But with Zoom, you do that. You actually bring people in Zoom and then you can.
Jonathan: Well, it’s difficult to get people into that Zoom room. That’s why we push it to Facebook. It’s still to some extent to get that interaction. I think one of the factors is that you got to search for a topic in the Blab interface and find new shows.
Bill: Yeah. That’s true.
Jonathan: And then watch them. And then if you were interested, you could be part of the discussion if the host had that available, which as the present moment on Facebook or YouTube you don’t really have, do you, a central area where you can search.
Bill: No. No, you don’t. Eventually, that’ll evolve I’m sure. I was going to say, the difference between Google and YouTube, Google is search. So anytime you’re a Google Plus Hangout which the video, as long as you tag that and you make a really nice YouTube channel, you’re going to find search online. That’s why you have to do YouTube.
Jonathan: Yeah. But I think …
Bill: I mean later on. That would give you search.
Jonathan: I also think Bill, because of the bandwidth cost that the only two players that could afford to do something similar to Blab is either Facebook or YouTube really because they’ve got the big enough pockets where the bandwidth cost isn’t such a consideration. Because I think those bandwidth costs and the lack of monetization is what finished off Blab.
Bill: Right. When you think about it, Google Plus Hangout, it’s sort of similar to Blab.
Jonathan: But you haven’t got that central area to search, do you?
Bill: No. No. I know what you’re talking about. You don’t have a way to quickly search. They used to have all these different, you could just sort of see who’s live right now.
Jonathan: It was the power of the network folks. You could do a search on the Blab home page and then you find shows about WordPress or shows about whatever topic.
Jonathan: And then, you could bookmark them and it would send you a little note saying when the show’s coming up. And then you could watch it in the background or listen to it in the background. And you also had people come in, finding you during the show as well, didn’t you?
Jonathan: So you build a new audience which is totally missing on these present, well, a little bit on Facebook really. There’s that little bit of functionality, a little bit. But they’ve still got a bit of a world to go, haven’t they Bill?
Bill: Jonathan, we used to do three shows. We used to do Meet the Voter on Sundays. Remember that?
Jonathan: He got me into politics folks.
Bill: We won’t talk politics here. But we used to do something called Meet the Voters. We had a group of people, all from different backgrounds. We’d watch Meet the Press and then we’d talk about Meet the Press and Meet the Voter. But one time, do you remember how many people were watching one time? At France?
Jonathan: Well, you did get an enormous audience at one time, didn’t you?
Bill: After the attack in France, I forgot, it was like huge.
Jonathan: 3,000, 4,000 people.
Bill: It was at least that.
Bill: Live. Live.
Jonathan: Live. It was amazing, wasn’t it?
Bill: At least that, if not more. I think maybe 17,000 eventually on that.
Jonathan: You even had some French people joining us, didn’t we?
Bill: We did.
Jonathan: We did.
Bill: It was from France, yeah.
Jonathan: It was, wasn’t it? It made you happy, didn’t it? Having your French friends, didn’t you?
Bill: True. True. Yeah. So anyway, what’s on the horizon next and this is primarily for WP-Tonic. So what would WordPress people want to see next and what should they do?
Jonathan: In what context Bill?
Bill: In all contexts. Let’s talk about this. A lot of people I know who didn’t used to have Podcasts or vlogs who have SaaS products and WordPress products now have Podcasts. What’s one of my favorite ones other than WP-Tonic?
Jonathan: Thank you for that Bill. I have no idea, Bill.
Bill: I do like WP-Tonic. I never hardly ever miss an episode because I still enjoy listening to everybody and I learn a lot. But you’ve got other things like LifterLMS, Chris Badgett.
Jonathan: Oh, yes. Chris has done an excellent job, hasn’t he?
Bill: That’s one of my top ones. You, Chris. And I listen to those religiously.
Jonathan: Yes. Chris has joined the WP-Tonic Round Table panel. So he will be appearing on the Friday on a regular basis. And he’s a friend of the show as well.
Bill: But you know, Chris, even though he’s got a product, he’s really not the guy who’s the WordPress Programmer. That’s Thomas.
Jonathan: Oh, yeah. Thomas, his partner.
Bill: Thomas is really, Chris is the promoter, which is a good combination. You’ve got Thomas …
Jonathan: A good business relationship. Thomas stays in the man cave and Christ roams around in his mountaineering outfit. He’s an outdoorsman. So it’s a good combination.
Bill: That’s a really good combination. Good team. Now, Chris doesn’t know CSS and HTML.
Jonathan: He’s a man of multi-talents Bill.
Bill: But I think he knows Beaver Builder. He likes Beaver Builder. So he’s always testing stuff, but he’s around the people. Chris is like me. He learns it from being around these great Programmers.
Jonathan: Well, actually, he was a hardcore Developer Bill.
Jonathan: He was. Yeah, he was actually. He gave up on it a little bit after he met Thomas. And like you say, he was a front-end Developer actually.
Bill: A front-end. A front-end. Not a back-end.
Jonathan: Well, front-end, back-end.
Bill: No. Thomas is back-end. I don’t think Chris has ever been back-end.
Jonathan: Well, we’ll have to find out, won’t we?
Bill: You have to ask him.
Jonathan: So we’re coming to the end of the show, Bill. So how can people find out more about you and what you’re up to Bill?
Bill: So you can always head on over to any of the shows, Timelines of Success, Podcasters’ Home is not a show, it’s a page. National Association of Podcasters. You can blog that and find it. You saw the page. It’s just sort of laying out there. We’re working on it right now. There’s so much to do. I interviewed Executive Directors this week. That’s why we have to make money because you have to have somebody running the darn thing, keeping track of everybody and making sure they all get their due in their association. But the Association will help too. And another thing I hope Association is it’s an Association. So the idea is to have some principles to follow like free speech, make sure we can always get on Podcasts and vlogs …
Jonathan: I think it’s a great idea. It’s a great thing that you’re building here Bill. I’m sure that it’s going to be a great success Bill.
Bill: Yeah. It’s fun.
Jonathan: If you want to find out more about WP-Tonic, it’s quite easy folks. Go to the Facebook page. We’re going to be starting a WP-Tonic group in the next couple of weeks. So you’ll be able to join that as well. You can find about what I’m up to on Twitter @jonathandenwood or go to the WP-Tonic website itself where you’ll find all the shows, show notes, links, a load of material on there. And you’ll be able to join us this Friday for another WP-Tonic Round Table show or next week where we’ll be interviewing somebody that’s doing something with WordPress. We’ll see you next week folks. Bye
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