We Look At Our Most Powerful Interviews In 2025
Our most powerful interviews in 2025 revealed: Game-changing conversations with visionaries you need to hear. Don’t miss these stories.
In 2025, we dive deep into the most impactful interviews that shaped our understanding of key issues. This episode features extraordinary discussions with influential figures across sectors, highlighting their insights and lessons learned. Prepare to be inspired as we unpack thought-provoking moments and revelations.
#1 – Rob Walling
Rob Walling, Founder of Tinyseed, MicroConf & Podcast “The Startups For The Rest of Us.”
https://www.wp-tonic.com/987-wp-tonic-show-are-the-glory-days-of-saas-finished-in-a-world-of-ai/
#2 – Dustin W. Stout
Dustin W. Stout, Founder & CEO of Magai.co.
https://www.wp-tonic.com/985-wp-tonic-showfrom-the-longest-night-to-making-114238-in-15-days/
#3 – Matthew Renze
Matthew Renze, AI Researcher, Consultant, And Author
#4 – Brad Englert
Brad Englert is the founder of Brad Englert Advisory and an author, advisor, and technologist. Brad worked for Accenture for 22 years, including 10 years as a partner. He then served the University of Texas at Austin for eight years, including seven years as the chief information officer (CIO).
#5 – Brian Jackson
With Special Guest Brian Jackson, Joint Founder of Perfmatters
This Week’s Sponsors
Kinta: Kinta
LifterLMS: LifterLMS
Rollback Pro: Rollback Pro
The Show’s Main Transcript
[00:00:23.760] – Jonathan Denwood
Welcome back, folks, to the WP Tonic Show. This is episode 988. This will be an internal show. We had a guest, but for family reasons, they had to postpone. But hopefully, they’ll be joining us in the new year. Kirk and I had a discussion, and we thought we had guests coming through the whole of January and December. For that reason, we conduct an end-of-year review and highlight some of the best guest interviews we’ve had in 2025. I think we got a fantastic list. It should be a great show. So, Kurt, would you like to introduce yourself to the new listeners and viewers?
[00:01:20.460] – Kurt von Ahnen
Yeah, my name is Kurt von Annen. I own an agency called Magnana Nomas, and we do a lot of work directly with WP Tonic.
[00:01:27.760] – Jonathan Denwood
That’s fantastic. Thanks for being such a fabulous co-host and friend. Before we get into the meat and potatoes of the show, I have a message from some of our major sponsors. We will be back in a few moments, folks. Three, two, one. I want to say I really appreciate Kintster and Roadback as being a couple of our major. Also, we’ve got some special offers from the major sponsors, plus a curated list of the best WordPress plugins and services aimed at the freelancer, power user, or small agency. User. All this stuff’s used by WP Tonic and Kirek, so we highly recommend it. You can get all these goodies by going over to WP-tonic. Com/deals. Wp-tonic. Com/deals. What more could you ask for my beloved WordPress tribe? Probably a lot more, but that’s all you’re going to get on that page. So, Kirk, I’ll let you start. You start with the number one interview.
[00:02:53.280] – Kurt von Ahnen
Yeah. It’s very, very difficult to pick. Who are your top five? I I was curious before we do that, Jonathan, what was the criteria for you to choose? What are your top five interviews?
[00:03:09.600] – Jonathan Denwood
Well, I think we’ve done a great job this year. I believe the download figures have been increasing. I think you were surprised by how many downloads I got for the two shows that you helped me with. For niches, it’s pretty considerable. And thank you so much, listeners, for staying with us. The actual shows have grown. We do the WP Tonic and for a Membership Machine show, both Kurt and they’ve grown this year. But it isn’t easy. I think it just had some emotional residues with me, and I learned a little bit of insight with the discussions with these particular people. I think in general, we’ve had some good views. It’s very minor things, but it’s emotional responses.
[00:04:04.260] – Kurt von Ahnen
Yes, it was the same for me, so I wanted to do a barometer check on this. We had so many great guests this past year that it’s like, how do you pick the top five? And so, for me, it’s: do I know them outside the interview? Do I use their products? Different ties bring people to the top of my list. One of the tops for me, and I I think we interviewed, it was Jack, Jack Arturo, number 942. We interviewed him, actually, in November of ’24. I hesitated to include it on this list because it was from 2024, but it was still within the year. I really appreciate the transparency and brilliance Jack brings to a conversation. That particular episode was one where you slipped in a question about the politics of WordPress, and Jack didn’t shy away or run from the answer to the question—he just dove in. And then, if I remember correctly, I had to bail and do work with Lifter LMS, but you stayed and did bonus content with him. That was pretty spicy. That was good. I really appreciate it when a guest comes to the interview ready to play.
[00:05:23.140] – Kurt von Ahnen
They know most of the questions we’re going to ask, but when you ask something that’s off target, they don’t run, they don’t hide, they He just came right to it. He was authentic and himself. I really thought that was a fun interview.
[00:05:37.400] – Jonathan Denwood
I’ve known Jack for several years. We’re not close, and I don’t think we’re friends. Well, I think he would take my call. He’s built a fabulous business over the years with WP Fusion. I didn’t know that he was totally self-taught. It belittles me. I struggled as I had to give up development. I became mentally burned out, and I never found it easy. But he’s a natural. WP Fusion is a quality product, and he’s built a strong company, which gives him the financial freedom he’s looking for. He actually wanted to talk about politics before the show when we were exchanging. That’s the main reason why he wanted to come on the show. I’m okay with it because in prior years, he had sponsored the show. In some ways, I’m a bit tired of the WordPress politics thing. I’ve always tried to be honest. I think Matt Madeas has always tried to be honest as well. But I’ve never attempted to make it really personal. I strongly disagree with some of the actions Matt Moundweg has taken. But he’s a human being, and he makes his own decisions.
[00:07:07.780] – Jonathan Denwood
I haven’t agreed with some of them, and I think I’ve been honest, but on the other hand, I haven’t trolled him. No. I haven’t stalked him on X or whatever platform, making insult in state, personal attacks on him. I don’t know if you agree with that, because we’re friends, you can be honest with me. I don’t think the things I’ve said. Other people have said that I’m depressive, and I’m always negative. I don’t think that’s right.
[00:07:41.270] – Kurt von Ahnen
No, I was actually just on a call today with other professionals in the space. And I said, there’s a lot of people at the top of the food chain right now that are… You could talk to them one-on-one, you could have a conversation with them, and they’re completely normal, intelligent, kind, great people. We’ve had one conversation with Matt. I’ve had one-on-one conversations with Kevin and other people in the space. But sometimes, when they post content or make videos online, it doesn’t come across as positive. I don’t think they’re doing themselves favors in that regard.
[00:08:17.060] – Jonathan Denwood
No. Let’s move on. Rob rolling. We’re not close friends, but I do see Rob as a friend. I’ve known him for years. His story and what he’s achieved keeps me motivated because this has been a dire period for me the last three, four months. Having him come back on the show and his story, he’s done amazingly well. I just wish I was a bit younger, but I still just got to try and build something. But I find his story amazing and what he’s achieved. And he’s so transparent about his story. Obviously, he hasn’t shared everything. He’s not going to because he’s a personal individual, but he’s very transparent. I think in general, he’s been very generous with people. Obviously, he’s in the business to finance companies, but it just strikes me, him and his wife, just really strike me as really top quality people. What do you think, Kurt?
[00:09:32.140] – Kurt von Ahnen
Well, I couldn’t agree more. You and I have some overlap on favorites, and so I chose different ones. I knew Rob Walling was going to be on your list. I just knew Rob Walling was going to be on your list. But I’ve read his books, I’ve read his wife’s books, and think about the… This is something for entrepreneurs to really sit and muddle over in their own heads. Think about the advantage of being an entrepreneur and having a partner like he has in his that’s like a co-entrepreneur. They are holding hands, running into the sunset together. I’m sure behind closed doors, things might not be so Rosie all the time, but she is an entrepreneur in her own right. She’s a published author. He’s an author. It’s really cool to see a team like that move forward. And to your point, whenever he’s on the show, because he’s been on more than once with me, transparent, answers questions, friendly, just a really great person. I couldn’t agree with you more. He deserves to be at the top of the list for you.
[00:10:36.120] – Jonathan Denwood
You brought something about his wife. She does her own podcast, The Zen. I will make sure it’s in the show notes. This is quite personal. I listened to her podcast, and she did a tribute. It wasn’t this year, it was last year. She did a tribute for her brother. Unfortunately, her brother committed suicide. He had a history of some mental problems, and he committed suicide in Wyoming, a state that he chose. He wasn’t there constantly, but he always returned to Wyoming. It’s not a sentimental tribute, but it’s a very personal one. I thought I would bring that because that had… Yeah. Over to you.
[00:11:36.280] – Kurt von Ahnen
Well, my next one is one of the ladies on the list. We’ve interviewed some really great ladies in the last year, and I really love when Katie Keith comes on the roundtable. I think she’s awesome, too. But the one that jumped off the table to me this year as being just a really fun interview was number 961, so show number 961. It was Kimberly Lepari. We had nice conversation with her that was about the changing roles in agency ownership and running an agency. It was a more agency-focused show, so I really enjoyed the conversation. And I know Kimberly from another group on Post Status, where we get together and do an agency chat once a month on Zoom with POS status. And she’s actually volunteered and run that call before. So just her ability and her personality You know what I mean? I think so much success in the space running an agency. And I mean, sure, knowing technical stuff is valuable, but when you can also bring energy and lightness to a room when you show up, I think that’s a huge value. She’s got that in spades.
[00:12:46.620] – Jonathan Denwood
Do I bring lightness? Sometimes the lightness is a struggle, Jonathan. If you could have a joke with me.
[00:12:59.300] – Kurt von Ahnen
Yeah, Yeah. No, I mean, it just- I could be a bit dire, but I’m always up for a quick joke.
[00:13:05.050] – Jonathan Denwood
You can’t take the Mickey out of me. Some of the people in the WordPress and in business, they’re so pompous, aren’t they?
[00:13:14.760] – Kurt von Ahnen
Yeah, they take it too serious. And when you have a conversation with someone like Kimberly, she can be serious, but light and friendly and smile. And she brings another, I would say, soft skill to the table, right? That’s a soft skill. Her people skills, her interview skills, her communication skills, they’re all top-notch.
[00:13:35.640] – Jonathan Denwood
I’ve just noticed, Kirk, I’ve got my coffee, but all I’ve got is some hot water. I never put the- Never put the coffee in. We’re going to have to have break. I will have to put some coffee in my hot water. Yeah, that’s fantastic. A recent one, but I thought it was a fabulous discussion, and somebody very similar to Rob is Dustin the CEO of Magia.
[00:14:04.480] – Kurt von Ahnen
Magia.
[00:14:05.080] – Jonathan Denwood
Magia, sorry. I thought it was just a fabulous discussion. Another person that was really facing a dark hour. I thought the story he was telling is totally truthful. He wasn’t totally broke, but he wasn’t looking good. I think Rob Rowland doesn’t come from money. It comes from everything he built, he did it himself. I think they’re two amazing entrepreneurs with great stories.
[00:14:42.160] – Kurt von Ahnen
Well, it’s a sign to other entrepreneurs that, hey, you might feel like you’re pushing a canoe upstream, but there are people in this space right now that are forging forward, that are finding success. I’ve always Especially during the pandemic, I don’t know if you know this, Jonathan, I went live every day when the pandemic started. And my main message was, you got to find opportunities within the obstacles. I mean, every time something dire happens in society or economy or something, there’s always a handful of people that somehow sit in a quiet space and think and strategize a way to find an opportunity within the obstacle. And I got to say, the more people talk about this current economy, the more I’m focused on what is the obstacle and what’s the opportunity.
[00:15:32.200] – Jonathan Denwood
Yeah. On to your one.
[00:15:35.460] – Kurt von Ahnen
Oh, I get to go again. I’m going to go with… I’m going to pull this one out now because I think it’s bouncing off that energy. That’s number 983, Imran Siddiqu.
[00:15:50.840] – Jonathan Denwood
Oh, Siddiqu.
[00:15:52.280] – Kurt von Ahnen
I love Imran Siddiqu. His energy, and I’ve seen some of his YouTube videos and stuff like that, But it’s obvious that nobody is in his pocket. You know what I mean? When he talks about a subject, you’re hearing from him. You’re not hearing from his sponsor. And when he talks on these interviews, he’s very forthright. He’s got a high energy level. He’s got a good sense of humor.
[00:16:18.360] – Jonathan Denwood
He’s just a fun person. He’s English, isn’t he?
[00:16:20.800] – Kurt von Ahnen
Yeah, and he’s just a fun person. And maybe I get the whole away with the ferries and swings at roundabouts and horses and courses and things. I know some of the sayings But he’s just a fun person. Every time he’s on the show, I’m in a good mood.
[00:16:39.280] – Jonathan Denwood
This is crazy stuff. People, they treat you like the devil if you make one statement they don’t agree with, don’t they? I don’t agree with all his statements. I do agree with some of the stuff he says. But it’s a thing in WordPress, and the WordPress community, that you’re marked as a traitor or something if you’re not in their subgroup. It’s the only thing that I find difficult about. I’m sure other online communities or communities in general, it’s just the same, isn’t it? Yeah. But I find it… Me and Kirk, I’m much more left wing than Kirk is, but we have reasonable discussions. Kirk’s an expert of pointing out on Ron about Canada. But there we go. We go on to my… Yeah, another interview that I really enjoyed, Matthew Ranzanci, Rance, and it was struggled with these names, but he’s Heather’s husband. I’ve known Heather for years. She’s a friend. Matthew’s a friend. He’s an expert on AI. That’s what he does for a living with his consultancy, and He’s doctorate and he’s a true expert on AI. As always, what do I know? But it never stopped me from challenging some of the things he was saying.
[00:18:30.220] – Jonathan Denwood
But I think he took it in good light, didn’t he? I thought it was a pretty interesting discussion, but I don’t know if you thought it was just boring. But what’s your thoughts on this one?
[00:18:44.400] – Kurt von Ahnen
It was a It was a really good discussion, and it was really entertaining when you pushed back on him with his terminology on certain things. It was a fun interview, and I knew that he was going to be on your list, so it did not end up on mine.
[00:18:57.640] – Jonathan Denwood
You could who I was going to choose. I’m that easy to read. I knew you’d like that. I’m a very simplistic man at heart, folks.
[00:19:07.180] – Kurt von Ahnen
No, but a lot of our… For months, we asked guests, What are some of the AI tools that you use? How do you think AI is going to affect WordPress in the next 18 to 24 months? When we interview somebody that is an actual expert in the field, it just stands to reason they’re going to be at the top of your list. Matthew was super fun to have on the interview. Again, when you gave him some pushback on some terms, that was entertaining. That was fun.
[00:19:37.240] – Jonathan Denwood
Yeah, it’s the whole industry AI as an outsider, I’ve just listened to podcasts and stuff on YouTube, as we all do, folks. It’s just in the industry itself, in the subject, in academia, there’s such a diversion of where we are with this. What is the future of large learning models? Can they be scaled further to get dramatic improvements, or are we on a plateau? General intelligence, is that possible in the near future or even possible in the medium long term? Super intelligence, is that just garbage, basically? You can listen and observe people that got extensive experience in the subject matter in the industry, and they would have dramatically different views on these fundamental issues. In some ways, I’m burnt out with AI because we’re going to do another podcast later on today and part of it, and I’ve been using some of it. The time I’ve wasted Using some of this stuff, trying to persuade it to do a landscape picture, and it refuses to do it. I think myself, But other stuff, I use it every day, and it’s helped me out a lot. I’ve got very diverse views about it myself. In the practical side where Matthew is a true expert on it.
[00:21:25.980] – Jonathan Denwood
But I thought, and it was a respectful discussion, wasn’t Yeah. Even though we got different view. Well, I wasn’t sure. What would you before… I don’t know. Have you done two or three of your own, guess?
[00:21:44.460] – Kurt von Ahnen
I’ve done three.
[00:21:45.720] – Jonathan Denwood
You’ve done three, and I’m on my third. We got a bit of time, about four minutes before we need to go to half break. What do you think he was really saying when he was coming back with my statements.
[00:22:03.700] – Kurt von Ahnen
In the interview about AI?
[00:22:05.200] – Jonathan Denwood
Yes.
[00:22:06.360] – Kurt von Ahnen
I tend to think that he… I’m putting words in his mouth now at this point. From memory, I think he’s one of these people that really believe that AI is going to go to the next step. It’s going to have general intelligence. It’s going to be able to reason. And there’s people that freak out, like when there’s a new version of ChatGPT coming out, the old version tries to copy, clone itself and hide a copy somewhere. People go, oh, it’s trying to protect itself. That’s a sign of real feelings and intelligence. But I think he, again, maybe words in his mouth, but I think he’s one of these folks that believes that it’s possible for artificial intelligence to really be intelligent and have feelings and emotion and wisdom, the way that we think about human wisdom. But I’m not really in that camp.
[00:22:58.370] – Jonathan Denwood
Well, I’m not, but it’s totally possible. But I think where we diversified or went different paths is I don’t think large learning models can do that. I think there’s various strains of AI research around different technologies that do promise. But I don’t think that… This is just my personal view. What I’ve listened over the last year and a half, almost two years, I don’t honestly think large learning models can be the technology that do that. I think we’ve already seen that a little bit. I think I think, and other people would have a totally different opinion to me, I think OpenAI’s version 5 was… I think it was pushed by OpenAI. The expectations were ridiculous, and that was a lot caused by themselves. But I just don’t think the launch of OpenAI 5 was as dramatic as There’s some dramatic improvements in what people were expecting. I think this is shown by the way Google with Gemini 3, by what I’ve listened to, watched, have been able to catch up.
[00:24:31.040] – Kurt von Ahnen
Yeah, and a banana thing. It seems to be everyone’s conversation lately.
[00:24:35.820] – Jonathan Denwood
Yeah, and I spent two hours trying to persuade that to do imaging.
[00:24:41.780] – Kurt von Ahnen
Save it for the next show.
[00:24:43.480] – Jonathan Denwood
Yeah. I gave up on that landscape. Well, I think we’re in a good place to have a middle break. We will be back with some other great interviews that we did during 205 or right at the end of I think Kurt cheated a little bit, but he’s allowed to. We will be back in a few moments, folks. Three, two, one. We’re coming back, folks, I just want to point out that we’ve got a great YouTube channel, the WP Tonic channel. Not always, but most of the podcasts, you can listen to an extended version of the interviews on the WP Tonic. A lot of our guests are gracious and stay with us after the podcast for about 15, 20 minutes of additional content. So go over to the WP Tonic and subscribe. That really helps WP Tonic, and it also helps us get great guests for the podcast. So it’s a win-win for you and for us. What’s your next guest, Kurt?
[00:25:59.280] – Kurt von Ahnen
Oh, I get to go next. This is another one of my cheats. This is from 2024.
[00:26:03.340] – Jonathan Denwood
I forgot to get my coffee.
[00:26:05.420] – Kurt von Ahnen
I tossed it over. I’m like, does he want to get coffee?
[00:26:09.160] – Jonathan Denwood
I’m going to go get my coffee. You can tell. Go on, off you go.
[00:26:12.800] – Kurt von Ahnen
Okay. When he said, off you go, I don’t know if that meant to talk about my next guest or to wait for me to get coffee. Hang on, folks. It’s coming. So I figured you’d be able to take that out in editing, so I didn’t want to ruin it and have you off screen. So I figured we take that out in editing.
[00:26:47.020] – Jonathan Denwood
Sorry?
[00:26:47.720] – Kurt von Ahnen
So I let you go get coffee.
[00:26:49.240] – Jonathan Denwood
All right, we can edit that out.
[00:26:50.780] – Kurt von Ahnen
Yeah, you can edit it out. People watching live are just like, What the hell? Jonathan went to get coffee?
[00:26:55.940] – Jonathan Denwood
All right, let’s do it again. Three, two, one. We’re coming back, folks from the middle break. I want to point out that if you want to support the show, go over to the WP Tonic YouTube channel. We have extended versions of these podcast interviews. A lot of our guests do bonus content with us. And by subscribing to the channel when we do one of these interviews, you’re going to be updated and you can watch the bonus content on the WP tonic YouTube channel. So do that, and it really does support the show. Right, Kirk, over to you for our next interview.
[00:27:38.820] – Kurt von Ahnen
So this is another one of my cheats, according to Jonathan. I used a 12-month span instead of just 2025. And that’s because even to this day, I still think about the interview we did in 2024. It was episode number 934. We interviewed Jules from WP Managed Ninjas. And as an agency, and I’m speaking for both Manana Nomas and WP Tonic at this point, under both agencies, I’ve heavily relied on Fluent CRM, Fluent Form, Fluent Community. We use Fluent Support. It’s just such a powerhouse plug-in house, and then to be able to talk to Jules is pretty cool. But then He is one of those altruistic, transparent, easy to talk to, it’s just a very fun person to have. And the focus of his show was his episode was going from a staff of four to 110. What does it look like to scale your business from four people in the office to 110? And so that was just a really telling episode because, again, Sometimes in this space, we’re having conversations about, oh, maybe WordPress is shrinking, maybe this isn’t going right, or maybe this is going wrong. It’s like we’re looking for the other shoe to drop.
[00:29:10.730] – Kurt von Ahnen
We’re always looking for what’s the canary in the coal mine, for how long can we stay at the top of the list? But then you interview somebody like Jules who’s positive, that’s making new product, that’s forging forward. I mean, just what, six weeks or two months ago, they came out with Fluent Cart. I just did an in-depth video on that product for Lifter LMS. That was such a good interview, and I really enjoyed our time with him, and I look forward to having him back.
[00:29:40.640] – Jonathan Denwood
Well, he actually is coming back. We’re going to do a special interview, hopefully in January with him. Even though we’re booked, he’s asked to come on the show, and he’s been extremely generous to me. Everything you said about Joel, I agree with. Not only is he a very pleasant individual, he’s been highly successful. It just shows you that you don’t have to be a dickhead to be highly successful, because there’s a couple of people that are highly successful in the WordPress space, and they’re true dickheads. I got to the stage where I thought, That’s why you’re not because you got to be a bit of a dickhead. But it’s not true because he’s been hugely successful himself and his team. I think with the fluent car, it’s on a different level, isn’t it? The ambition or what he’s trying to build and do with Fluent Cart is at a different level. It looks like it’s a quality product. I trust him and his team, but the ambition and what you’re trying to achieve with Fluent Cart is at that different level, isn’t I say that Fluent CRM is at a pretty… Because it is obviously…
[00:31:05.960] – Jonathan Denwood
I like WP Funnel and I like Fluent, but Fluent CRM is the… Technically, I see it just as good or slightly better than active campaign. That’s a pretty big hurdle as well, isn’t it?
[00:31:24.680] – Kurt von Ahnen
Yeah. On my backup list, in case we had too many Too many crossovers. On my backup list was Sulton with WP Funnel, and you mentioned WP Funnel, right? Yeah. I think that’s another- Well, they’ve been very supportive, and I plan to do some videos on their product, new product, and create it in a mess. The use case for WP Funnel and the use case for Fluent CRM, they’re just different use cases, right? My goodness, if Fluent CRM did landing page generation with their funnel builder, it would be a whole new world, I think. But WP Funnel is great for the landing pages.
[00:32:04.360] – Jonathan Denwood
They’re both quality companies, aren’t they? Yeah. On to my one. Slightly different, Brad Inlet. Hugely run… It’s been a consultant outside. I like bringing people from the world of SaaS and general business because I like mixing it up, folks. I like people from the WordPress space, but I also like to bring people in from the world of SaaS and from general business as well. I was quite impressed with Brad. You could tell that you had a lot of experience where he has, and he’s consulted and worked with some of the largest companies. He really pointed out that it is communication and process. A lot of people companies, small, medium, and large, very large, don’t have much of that. What was some of the… Did it stick in your mind the interview at all? Or was your own thoughts about this?
[00:33:11.220] – Kurt von Ahnen
I even went back and reviewed that episode to make sure I had my head on straight. He used the term culture a fair bit, and we did in the… And that’s one of my buzzwords in my power sport and marine training career path. I always talk to dealerships. I say, Hey, we have to fix your internal culture before we can institute process and customer relations and all these things. If you don’t have a good internal culture, none of the processes you’re trying to implement are going to stick. And so when the interview with Brad was going on, there was a lot of… What do we call that? A lot of symbiotic feelings, right? I was like, Oh, him and I are on the same page. And it was really a fun interview.
[00:33:59.180] – Jonathan Denwood
Yeah, because Because I’ve said the odd thing off cuff through the podcast, and I’ve paid a price for it, especially about three years ago. It’s over three years now. I’m not being very good at this. You got to really watch what you say. Because I’ve said things off cuff because I thought I’ve got a small niche audience that’s been with me for years, but it has grown this year, which I’m very appreciative. There’s a lot more podcasts out there for people. But I also think there’s a hunger for original content out there. I thought myself, Well, I’m only on a niche. Nobody really cares what I say. I say, But they do. You got to be a bit careful what you say. But they do. But they You say one thing and they never forgive you. Especially in leadership, that’s just what, especially economically or in your higher management and that, it has a family dynamics about it. You got to be very careful what you say, I think. But on the other hand, how do you not stop that so it becomes all very artificial? I think that’s the challenge, isn’t it?
[00:35:38.680] – Kurt von Ahnen
Authenticity, yeah.
[00:35:40.040] – Jonathan Denwood
Where you got to be careful, but it doesn’t stifle. It just becomes totally mechanical, doesn’t it? The company and it’s corporate speak, and it’s everywhere in America, Britain, in the West, probably global, isn’t Yeah, it’s authenticity with not splitting your own throat is a interesting balancing act. Kirk’s much better at it than me. Over to you, Kirk.
[00:36:14.840] – Kurt von Ahnen
All right. So what great timing. What great timing. Matt Madera is in the comments area. Matt, good to see you. A friend of both of ours there. Episode 9: 50. I’m going back to February on this one. And that’s Mark Zamansky. So I brought Mark Zamansky up as one of my five favorites of the year.
[00:36:37.500] – Jonathan Denwood
Robin.
[00:36:42.100] – Kurt von Ahnen
Robin to the Batman himself, right? So The things I like about Mark, and I’ve had Mark on my own podcast. So I’ve interviewed Mark more than once. I’ve had conversations with Mark. I just love the fact that there’s someone that’s a little more youthful in the space that’s being active, proactive in the space, and I enjoy it. It’s like Christian, right? That guy with the long hair, Christian, that does a lot of YouTube stuff. It’s like the youth, the engagement, the proactive nature. Sometimes I think Mark gets a little introspective, overthink things a little bit. But when you interview him, he doesn’t hide a bunch of stuff in folders. It’s not like he’s got a bunch of safes and folders locked up, right? You ask him questions and you get to see what he’s thinking at the moment, which is something I really admire. And in the path for in Omas in the coming year is we’re going to be launching an apprenticeship program working with younger people, trying to warm the bench, because there’s a lot of people in the WordPress space, quite honestly, have some age on them. And I think it would be really cool to get some of these for younger folks, especially coming out of these community colleges, to look at WordPress as an option instead of Webflow or vibe coding or some of the other things that they’re talking about right now.
[00:38:11.980] – Kurt von Ahnen
Mark, to me, is one of the stellar personalities that rises to the top.
[00:38:17.120] – Jonathan Denwood
Yeah, I’ve always enjoyed Mark seeing as a friend. I was humming high in to have Matt Madeias on my list. I always enjoy the conversations with Matt. He’s been on the show a couple of times. I think they’ve been great discussions. I see Matt as a friend. I don’t know if he sees me as a friend, but I’d see him as a friend. I don’t agree with everything Matt says, but he definitely doesn’t agree with everything I say. It’s always funny having Matt on the Roundtable show because I could always tell he’s in two minds. What the hell am I on here for? But you got to keep it a little bit edgy. I think Matt, I have calmed down, haven’t I, Matt? I think truly I have calmed down a bit. Have I calmed down a bit, Kurt?
[00:39:07.160] – Kurt von Ahnen
I think if we were to look at episodes from two, three years ago to today, it’s a night and day difference, man.
[00:39:12.600] – Jonathan Denwood
Yeah, I’ve learned, especially the Roundtable show. You got to be very, very careful what you say if you’re a podcaster because it’s out there. That’s the funny thing about it, isn’t it? We hardly get any engagement. I get engagement on the WP tonic. I’m going to be doing more stuff on X and probably on TikTok next year, trying to get more engagement because I love a chat. I love podcasting, but it’s very difficult to get any engagement with it. It until people go down. Until you say something? And then you get loads of engagement, don’t you? But it’s the wrong type of engagement, isn’t it?
[00:39:55.460] – Kurt von Ahnen
Now, well, you’ve got one more guest to unveil on this wrap-up.
[00:39:59.460] – Jonathan Denwood
Yeah, it’s Another friend of the show, somebody I really admire, very helpful guy, built up a really good niche business with his brother, was in the management of Kinster, really love Kinster. I do appreciate them. Tom and the Kinster team sponsoring WP Tonic this year. Hopefully, they might consider sponsoring it next year a little bit. But that’s Brian Jackson and his brother and their plugin that helps with speed. Just being a consistent friend of the show, I’ll probably build touch base with Brian, have him come back in the beginning of the new year. Always great interviews, very knowledgeable. What do you reckon, Kurt?
[00:40:52.780] – Kurt von Ahnen
I wasn’t sure if you were going to pick Brian Jackson or Brian Garner. I thought between the two, you would be- Well, I really love Brian Garner, but he’s not the easiest person to interview, to be true.
[00:41:04.980] – Jonathan Denwood
Not because he’s not friendly, he’s super friendly, but he’s just very wise in what he says. He doesn’t want to He is in charge of WCQ. I don’t blame him. But yeah, maybe I’ve been ungracious there, but love Brian. But Brian Jackson, he’s got his own plugin, he’s doing his own thing. But he’s not mean, is he? He’s never gone out and attacked people. I honestly don’t think I’ve… I think it’s my English humor. I call it humor, but my sarcasm has got me in a little bit of trouble. Or what do you reckon, Kurt?
[00:41:53.220] – Kurt von Ahnen
No, I don’t even think you’ve really gotten in trouble. That three years ago thing is water under the bridge and you’ve been safe.
[00:42:02.260] – Jonathan Denwood
I’ve plod along, haven’t I? What’s your thoughts about Brian Jackson?
[00:42:08.820] – Kurt von Ahnen
Again, I go back to brilliant. We’re picking the top interviews that we’ve done, friendly, brilliant, successful plug-in company. For me, it steps out that he’s just very matter of fact about the product that he makes, the product that he has. I didn’t get the same Gosh, you pulled up Dustin from Magi. He gave us the, Hey, I was really down in the dumps. Things were getting pretty desperate.
[00:42:39.180] – Jonathan Denwood
The bank again. My wife did have a fantastic job. It was looking fantastic.
[00:42:47.000] – Kurt von Ahnen
We don’t get that a story from Brian Jackson, but I liken it to my journeys in faith. People say, Oh, my testimony sucks because I don’t have a getting blinded on the path to Damascus story. And not everybody needs a blinded on the path to Damascus story. It’s like your story is your story, and Brian Jackson is just a fun guy to have on the show and talk to.
[00:43:10.460] – Jonathan Denwood
I just want to say about something that you might not know about Kirk. Kirk’s really shown he’s a very trustworth… We don’t agree on everything, and I do, but I do listen to Kirk’s input. But he’s shown with the work that he’s done at WP, Tony, he’s totally trustworthy. Because we’ve had to deal with some difficult clients during 2025, but I think with Kirk’s help, we have done it professionally, as professionally as we could do, couldn’t we, Kirk? Oh, yeah. You do learn things. But Brian, I think what he’s done with his company, with his brother, has been fantastic, isn’t it? I think they’ve got a where it’s successful and they’re getting the lifestyle that they want from it. And unlike me, Brian won’t have to be working until he’s dead. So unless I turn things around, which I hope to, God help me. But there we go. So any other people that you’d like to mention? Because we’ve got enough for 10 minutes 20 minutes, really, before we call it. You got to be off just before 10: 00, haven’t you?
[00:44:34.380] – Kurt von Ahnen
Yeah. There were people that popped up. I mentioned something with WP Funnel. We also met Matt Madera. Just For the record, Matt Madera is not on my list because that would sure look like I was shining on to him. I do another project- Terrible.
[00:44:52.600] – Jonathan Denwood
That would be shocking, wouldn’t it?
[00:44:53.980] – Kurt von Ahnen
Yeah. I do another project with him called Agency Action with Tobi Crines, and that’s a really project that we do together.
[00:45:01.230] – Jonathan Denwood
You’ve done a great job there with that podcast. Tobi’s a great co-host with you.
[00:45:05.800] – Kurt von Ahnen
I think you’re a joint host, aren’t you? Yeah, I think there’s just an energy there that’s great. I already mentioned Katie Keith, but when Katie Keith comes, there’s always a heightened level of energy and perspective. She is someone that, again, another personality that I’ve had the pleasure of spending personal time with. Her and I got together at WordCamp, had a really great discussion over a couple of beverages. And she’s got a way of seeing things and a way of being transparent about what she sees that I think gives people another insight to business. I’m trying to say this in a way that makes sense to other people. She’s got a way of seeing things that is a different perspective, but she can also communicate that perspective, which a lot of people struggle with. She shares it. She follow her on X. She’s very transparent about what she does with her company.
[00:46:05.620] – Jonathan Denwood
I think the key challenge for WordPress in 2026 is whether it can remain relevant. Obviously, it’s driving between 43 and 45. It might be less than that, depending on what measurement you want to take. But can it still be relevant in the age of AI and increasing competition in the SaaS arena? AI is a threat to SaaS. There are several micro SaaS-like companies. I’m going to be talking about one of those that’s come on my radar in our other podcast. But as OpenAI and others do, will they combine these niche areas, stifling oxygen for these micro AI companies? We don’t know, but how will WordPress… Can WordPress… I think what has kept it going is that, in the agency space, it’s still seen as one of the top tools. I believe in the do-it-yourself small business; they’ll do it themselves. I think it’s been challenged a lot by Wix and Squarespace. I think the biggest challenge for WordPress is how Shopify and Wu are perceived. It does face some significant challenges. I think there’s a lot it could do, especially in e-commerce, and I wouldn’t want to build a successful e-commerce business on Shopify.
[00:48:12.140] – Jonathan Denwood
It’s not that I’ve any issues with Shopify. I would want the maximum control over my major… If I were an e-commerce business, I would wish to maximum power. What do you think?
[00:48:28.940] – Kurt von Ahnen
Well, this is a tricky thing to say, and I don’t want to be some pooh-pooh or negative person, but I think WordPress does a really great job. And this is what we see in the power sports industry of preaching to the choir, right? If you’re already in the space, an agency, and familiar with WordPress, WordPress does a great job of keeping you in that environment, right? But when you get outside of a regular WordPress-run event, when you go to something that is a digital marketing generalist assembly, a lot of folks in the SaaS space look down on WordPress. They’re like, Oh, you’re using WordPress? Are you still using it? It’s so old. Are you still using WordPress? And I think there’s… I’m putting words in their mouth, but I think at the higher end of the WordPress pyramid, I think those folks are like, Oh, we’ve already got 43% of the Internet. We’ve got it. These other people are just hands on the beach to us. And I think that’s a dangerous perspective to have, because when I speak at high schools and community colleges, the students in this age range have never even heard of WordPress, let alone used it.
[00:49:46.240] – Kurt von Ahnen
And that’s why I’ve geared my apprentice program toward younger people: if we’re not warming the bench, if we’re not reaching out to new audiences and people, where’s it going to go? We’re all going to age out.
[00:50:00.580] – Jonathan Denwood
Well, yes, but I think it is about how WordPress can move forward and remain relevant to e-commerce and to people. I spoke with some friends who run digital agencies, but they’re primarily serving small businesses. Someone like you, like Tobi, or a mid-range agency would probably be out of the price range for a content writer, a graphic designer, or a 4-, 5-, 10-, or 20-person agency. These-sized businesses aren’t going to go. They’re going to a freelancer, a one-person agency, or a two-person agency. I see that Squarespace and Wix are encroaching on each other. I think WordPress could address the situation and make it much better. We will have to see. Where can people find out more about you and what you’re up to, Kurt?
[00:51:09.060] – Kurt von Ahnen
Business is at Manana Nomas. I’m Manana Nomas on all the socials and manananomas. Com. If you want to connect with me directly, the best place to do so is LinkedIn. I’m the only Kurt von Ahnen on LinkedIn, so when you find me, you know you’ve got the right guy.
[00:51:24.120] – Jonathan Denwood
Join Kurt on LinkedIn so you can hear him on the podcast. If you really want to support the show, folks, give us a review. If you’re listening to this podcast on iTunes and Spotify on your mobile device, it’s really easy to leave a review. It’s one of the primary ways that new people find the show. If you can, please point out my strengths, weaknesses, or other areas for improvement. Some people on X have found it very easy to point out my deficiencies. I accept them, folks. I’m only human, not perfect like them. But please leave us a review. That would be much appreciated. We’ll see you next week with another fantastic interview. We’ll see you soon. Bye.
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