Why 90% of Membership Sites Fail (And How to Fix It)

90% of membership sites fail—don’t be one of them. Discover the top reasons sites collapse and proven fixes to build a thriving community.

Ever wondered why a staggering 90% of membership sites fail? In this show, we dive deep into the common pitfalls that lead to their downfall and reveal actionable strategies to overcome them. From understanding your audience to creating valuable content, we cover it all. Don’t let your membership site become another statistic! Tune in now for essential tips to help it succeed.

This Week’s Sponsors

Jetpack: Jetpack

Ninja Forms: Ninja Forms

LifterLMS: LifterLMS

Rollback Pro: Rollback Pro

#1 – Validate paid demand before you build anything.

Most failed sites launch from an assumption, not a market. Fix: identify one specific audience with one specific problem (broad topics like “fitness” rarely work; “strength training for men over 40” does), then pre-sell a founding-member offer before building the platform.

#2 – Sell an outcome, not a content library.

A paywalled archive is the weakest model — members “use it up and leave,” and overwhelm is the number-one reason people cancel. Fix: design a defined journey with milestones so members always know what to do next.

#3 – Engineer an early win in week one.

The first weeks decide the first renewal — first-year members renew at 75% versus 85% overall. Fix: a structured 30-day onboarding sequence that points new members to your best content and gets them to an “aha” moment fast.

#4 – Build community, not just content.

Community-driven memberships see retention of 85–92% versus 60–70% for content-only sites — MGI’s benchmarking report found 6.06% churn with a community area versus 10.46% without (BuddyBoss, Refact). Fix: make the forum, live calls, and member interaction central to the product, not optional background noise.

#5 – Kill involuntary churn — the silent killer.

Roughly a quarter of churn isn’t a decision at all; it’s failed payments and expired cards, with about 8% of renewal invoices failing on the first attempt. Fix: automated payment retries, dunning emails, and easy update-card flows — plus a “pause” option instead of full cancellation when someone wants out.

#6 – Make retention an active, measured process.

Nearly half of membership owners don’t know their own churn rate or member lifetime value. Fix: track monthly churn and cohort behavior, watch for members who stop logging in, run exit surveys when people cancel, and act on what you learn — acquisition can cost up to 25x more than retention.

The Show’s Main Transcript

[00:00:16.640] – Jonathan Denwood

Welcome back, folks, to the Membership Machine Show. This is episode 192. In this episode, we’re going to be talking why 90% of membership websites Fail and how to fix it, how not to be one of those that fail. Really important subject. I’ve got my great co-host with me, Kurt. Kurt, would you like to introduce yourself to the new listeners and viewers?

[00:00:40.850] – Kurt von Ahnen

Sure, Jonathan. My name is Kurt, Kurt von Ahnen. I own my own agency called Mañana No Más, and we also do a lot of great work with the team over at WP-Tonic as well.

[00:00:50.330] – Jonathan Denwood

That’s fantastic. Like I say, we’re going to be talking about the key things that you’ve got to understand so you can avoid being been one of those membership websites that fail. It’s a really important discussion. Um, before we go into the meat and potatoes, I’ve got a couple of messages from our major sponsors. We will be back in a few moments, folks.

[00:01:15.150] – Kurt von Ahnen

WP-Tonic is sponsored by Jetpack. Managing WordPress sites shouldn’t mean stitching together a pile of disconnected plugins.

[00:01:23.480] – Speaker 4

Jetpack brings security, performance, publishing, growth, and AI tools together in one WordPress-native toolkit. Use what you need: Backup, Scan, Boost, Social, VideoPress, Stats, and more. All with modernized dashboards built into WP Admin. For your site or your clients’ sites, see what Jetpack can do. Jetpack. WP-Tonic is sponsored by Ninja Forms, and let’s talk about one of their powerful tools, conditional logic. Conditional logic is the clearest example. Every rule for the whole form lives in one panel instead of being buried field by field. On client work, build speed and low maintenance are part of your margin. A form that is fast to configure and that a client can run afterward Without coming back means less friction during build and less support load after the handoff. Ninja Forms, powerful and genuinely easy to work with without being dumbed down. To learn more, go to ninjaforms.com.

[00:02:34.070] – Jonathan Denwood

Coming back, folks, also want to point out that the sponsors have got some great special offers. Plus we got a list of other free resources aimed at you. That’s looking at building a membership website on WordPress. You can get all these goodies by going over to wp-tonic.com/deals. wp-tonic.com/deals. You’ll find all the goodies there. So Kurt, how would you, how do you think we should introduce this particular subject?

[00:03:13.220] – Kurt von Ahnen

I think it’s important to recognize, Jonathan, that we’re gonna— we’re about to go through a list of things that are like assuming everything else is okay. Like when you say 90% of membership sites fail, some of them fail because they never do launch. People get frustrated, they don’t understand the tech, they don’t understand the tech stack, they choose weird plugins and then they get conflicts and weird things happen. So if we focus and say, okay, if you consult with or do the research first and, you know, have good hosting and a good tech stack and you pick decent plugins and, and, and, and in that situation, I think that’s paramount to understand that I think a lot of that first step to success is don’t be afraid to get the help that you know you really need. Like if you need a professional like WP-Tonic to orchestrate and put something together to give you that first great, you know, that first step, then that’s worth it. If you don’t have that skillset and you don’t take that first step, you’re destined for failure before you even get a chance to succeed. And then I think the things we’re gonna discuss for the rest of the show, I mean, it’s well worth sticking to the end because we’re covering a lot of like the function or the action of building a membership site.

[00:04:33.690] – Jonathan Denwood

Yeah, I think you’re totally spot on. So let’s go straight into it. Validate the paid demand before you build anything. I can’t emphasize how important this is. And I’m not saying it is easy, but it’s so important, isn’t it, Kurt?

[00:04:56.840] – Kurt von Ahnen

It is. And this is another one of those things where When you like validate something that isn’t like your best hunch based off of like a short mail list that you have, or a hunch based off of a Facebook group you’re a member of, like it— you— this is one of those things where I think you really need a third party to kind of like look at what you’re thinking and go, well, are you right or are you crazy? I have some very intelligent, very capable clients that are launching educational membership style websites. And their mail list, realistically, Jonathan, went out to like peers in the space and not customers in the space.

[00:05:38.740] – Jonathan Denwood

Yeah.

[00:05:39.220] – Kurt von Ahnen

And I think a lot of people make that mistake. I made that mistake with the PowerSport Academy. In the PowerSport Academy, I had a bunch of service managers that I thought would be my students on my mail list. And then I, and I was gonna approach them like, Like it’s gonna be revenue, but it didn’t turn out to be revenue because they’re not the ones that would buy the training. Their bosses would buy the training. So I had to reconfigure my whole marketing plan to go after their bosses instead of them. That happens a lot to people where they think they know their market, they think they know the avatar and who they’re selling to, but it turns out they’re 1 or 2 levels off in organizational status.

[00:06:18.940] – Jonathan Denwood

Yeah, every industry, every sector has a different culture, a different attitude, different things that motivate different markets, different groups. They all have different things that drive them. You know, we were talking on my, on my other podcast, I think it was last week or the week before, somebody that’s built a SaaS company, a successful one in the nonprofit space, and it became adamant that this is a really experienced individual, um, no idiot, um, but he was surprised when he entered the nonprofit area what really drove the industry and the, the real realities of trying to sell a really good product. I don’t, I don’t know personally how well the product works, the service they’re providing, but the idea around it and the market, you know, what it seems to be, it seems an excellent product, right? But didn’t really matter to the target audience. It was— they’ve built up a successful business, but it took a lot longer than they thought, um, and it took a lot more different attempts at different groups in the market before they got traction, didn’t they? And I think you find this in general. What do you think? I’m waffling a bit.

[00:07:52.190] – Kurt von Ahnen

No, I don’t think you’re waffling. I think it’s— it’s— I think if we don’t discuss it at length and give use case scenarios, like, I think sometimes when we bring this up and we say you have to validate your paid demand before you build anything, you need to make sure you have an audience. Like, I think some people would hear this and think that we’re talking down to them or that we’re assuming they’re too stupid or incapable, right? It’s not that. Like, like I preempted my earlier comment, I have brilliant, educated, wonderful clients that completely built an email list to the wrong group of people. Like, it’s human nature. We reach out to people we’re comfortable with. And unfortunately, a lot of times the people we’re selling to aren’t in that group. They’re in a separate group and we have to find that. We have to find that audience. And you got to— you have to validate, meaning like you got a sample that you’ve got the ability to sell to that before you invest and build and do a bunch of work behind it. Because if you don’t, you’re just really rolling the dice and you’re gambling more than you should.

[00:08:54.490] – Jonathan Denwood

Yeah, the problem— no, unless you’re— you’ve got a big presence in a particular community or business a business sector, you’ve got a big audience, the product’s really got to do the talking. And you know, if you’ve got a big presence, you’re a big star in a particular community, in health, in personal training, or you’re a big influence in a particular industry Um, you know, you’re probably gonna get— you’ve probably got a good list, you’ve got a good email list, and you’ve got the presence, and you’re probably gonna be able to sell so many of your courses. But if you, if you haven’t got any of that, it is— it’s the course that’s— and putting it in front of the right people that’s going to do the selling. And we’ve gone on about this quite a bit. During this podcast, and I’m not saying it’s right for all circumstances, but I do think building a minimum viable course and getting— aiming it at a realistic price so people don’t have to think too much about buying it and getting so many of the batch of students And then really not treating it, treating it as finding more about them, their problems, how they, you know, what they think of the course.

[00:10:39.540] – Jonathan Denwood

Spending a bit of time talking to these people and refining the next course is really important and not building Enormous. Of course, what’s coming through my mind, but unfortunately I have forgotten the lady’s name, is that lady that regularly joined Lifter LMS. Great Thursday, um, Zoom that Lifter LMS does that Kirk jointly runs. Um, you remember the lady that was the music, the, the music teacher? The— I think she— the voice coach lady.

[00:11:25.660] – Kurt von Ahnen

Yeah, yeah, she was sweet.

[00:11:27.610] – Jonathan Denwood

She— and she, um, I think she built a really nice course. Um, she— I had a— I had a chat with her because she was really struggling, but she had no plan, no insight. She built this really fabulous course, but she had no plan around how to market it at all. And she was very She just gave up on it in the end, didn’t she? She just walked away from it, I think.

[00:11:58.290] – Kurt von Ahnen

Which is hard to see happen because, you know, we see a lot of people that have really sound concepts, you know, really great ideas, good content. And unfortunately, they don’t get that immediate success, that immediate dopamine hit, and they give up too quickly. You know, there’s a lot of content out there for people in the entrepreneurial space where it says that, you know, the percentage of people that give up too early, like right before success happens, is pretty astounding. So success rewards those that have some resiliency and can weather the speed bumps a little bit and not be afraid to make some changes. And so I think it’s important to keep your mind open and know that there’s room to grow and room to learn. As you develop your product.

[00:12:48.120] – Jonathan Denwood

Yeah. Sell an outcome, not a content library. I think this is really, really important as well. It’s in your minimum viable course offering, your first one. You really, in my opinion, it’s really got to offer an outcome. It’s got to really offer that you’re dealing with a particular problem. And if you go through the course, you will have insight and you will be able to help people overcome a particular problem they’re having. What do you reckon about this?

[00:13:30.120] – Kurt von Ahnen

I got to tell you, I can’t agree more. And I’m thinking back to my own personal experience. I think it’s just, you know, when we share like our own personal failures, I think it gives listeners the ability to go, oh, he is human. That PowerSport Academy thing I keep mentioning, this was one of those mistakes I made. I spent 900 hours, you know, making this website and the curriculum and the content and multiple courses. And then I tried selling it as like, get access to our library of courses, get, you know, get access to this. And the thing that changed the most in regard to getting dealers to get in touch with us for this training was I changed the heading to say, are you tired of customers calling you on your cell phone to complain about service. And that was— that flipped everybody. It was like, oh, so then we sold to the pain point instead of what the content was. What we were selling was we’re going to get customers to stop complaining about doing business with you, you know, and that’s, hey, if you could stop these complaints, I’ll give you all the money I got.

[00:14:30.280] – Kurt von Ahnen

And that was, you know, that’s the outcome that we sold, not, not the actual courses.

[00:14:36.390] – Jonathan Denwood

Yeah. I think also I think, do you think if you had built a minimum viable course and got it out there at maybe a lower price, but just got it out there and got that initial feedback, you would, that would’ve been really helpful, wouldn’t it?

[00:14:58.300] – Kurt von Ahnen

In this particular case, I’m gonna say no, but that’s because, and again, I know we talked about this before, but you know, we talk about a lot of things. It’s easy for this to get lost. In this particular market, I had originally tried to sell a single course at a much lower entry point in, and that audience wasn’t buying, and I was really confused. And then when I sampled the course with people, like we advise people to do, like go get feedback from people you know, when I sampled the course, they said, oh, this course is great, but there’s no way my boss would write a check for this course, ’cause it’s too cheap. In our industry, we’re used to things being expensive. Like it’s gotta hurt in order for it to know that it’s gonna have value. So we literally 10x the price and then we started getting customers because our price was too low.

[00:15:44.180] – Jonathan Denwood

So

[00:15:44.810] – Kurt von Ahnen

that’s, you know, every industry is different.

[00:15:47.140] – Jonathan Denwood

So basically there was no way that these managers were going to like buy it out of their own pocket.

[00:15:55.490] – Kurt von Ahnen

No, no, this was—

[00:15:56.770] – Jonathan Denwood

Because that sometimes happens, doesn’t it? Yeah. People buy a product, buy a course, buy a digital product. And they buy it themselves and then it’s a way into a company. But in this particular industry, that wasn’t going to happen.

[00:16:14.080] – Kurt von Ahnen

In our industry, the white paper lead magnet seems to work fairly well because they’ll download something for free, right? And they’ll review it and then they’ll give it to the boss. But rarely. So we’re in a weird spot because the low-cost thing didn’t work for us. We had to go right to a capitalized investment at a high-dollar amount to get our foot in the door, which sounds totally counterintuitive. But to your point, Jonathan, you know, this took experimentation, trial and error to settle into what worked for our audience. And that’s what we’re encouraging people to do on this call.

[00:16:48.110] – Jonathan Denwood

Yeah. Right. Number 3, engineer, engineer an early win in 1 week or, or as soon as possible. Well, it depends what you want to win, but you’ve got to provide an answer to a problem, I think, reasonably quickly. Um, so you, you know, you’ve got to— it’s got to be logically formatted so it can give some insight that the audience or the students are looking for. What I’m not wording this very well, I’m not suggesting— I don’t think you have to solve their problem in one week. That’s what I’m saying. But you got to offer a— you got to offer a path, a clear pathway that will succeed in the problem they’re looking to help with. What do you think?

[00:17:47.060] – Kurt von Ahnen

I agree 100%. That’s so— in, in a lot of my products, Jonathan, I have multiple courses, right? So, and you can buy the courses as like a bundle. But my goal here is to get them to finish One course within one week. If they can do a course within a week and they can get one or two gold nuggets out of that training and implement something and see some kind of growth or some kind of a win within that first week, that’s that, you know, that’s that dopamine hit that keeps them coming back for more. I have other clients that have chosen to go another route where they’ll say, oh, I’m gonna have, you know, 90 lessons in one giant course. And I find that that is— in many cases, too big of an ask for the student. Because now course completion becomes an issue. They’ll do 10 lessons, and then they’ll not sign in for 3 months, right? So it’s, I think it’s important to have your training done in some kind of chunks that they can do, complete, and feel a sense of accomplishment over. And that gives them the motivation to continue and do more and possibly buy more with you.

[00:18:53.880] – Jonathan Denwood

Yeah, I think it’s a good place for us to go for our middle break, folks. We’ll be back with some other insights that I’m sure will help you build a successful membership website. We will be back in a few moments, folks.

[00:19:06.860] – Speaker 4

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[00:19:42.720] – Speaker 5

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[00:20:21.510] – Jonathan Denwood

We’re coming back, folks. I want to point out I do a weekly newsletter. I normally take one subject from either my other podcast, the WP-Tonic Show, or from the Membership Machine Show, um, and I expand it. And then I also find the weekly stories that interest me, and I combine it all into a free newsletter. You can get it by going over to wp-tonic.com. /newsletter, wp-tonic.com/newsletter. Onto the next thing, build community, not just content. What do you reckon about this one?

[00:21:05.220] – Kurt von Ahnen

I find that a lot of people kind of struggle with this one, Jonathan, and it’s weird. So it’s odd to me. I have some clients in the training space where like they don’t want their face on the website. They don’t want their email on the website. They want everything to be automated. They They saw something on social media one day that said, if you just create a course, it’s gonna be passive income and you don’t have to do nothing. And so for that audience, the idea where we say build community and not just content, they’re deaf to it. They don’t wanna hear that. And then there’s the other side where people think they want to build a community. They’re excited to build a community, but they don’t have the foggiest idea on how to actually get people motivated to join their community. You know, it’s just an interesting thing to watch transpire over time. And so you’ve got to be able to be willing to moderate, to seed the conversations, to reach out to people, to ask them to be a part of the community in order for it to get established and begin growing.

[00:22:09.140] – Kurt von Ahnen

Until you get 25, 30, 50 people in this community, it’s not gonna have an energy of its own, which means you’re gonna need to seed a lot of those original conversations and get things going and ask open-ended questions and get it to flare and go. And so it’s important. I think community adds a stickiness to the site. So if you sell just learning material and you don’t have a community element, you are expecting your learning content to do all the heavy lifting and keep people engaged in the site. However, if you have community and people can connect with other people within the website and share ideas, typically that adds enough stickiness to maybe keep your membership or your ongoing subscription recurring income at a higher level.

[00:22:57.850] – Jonathan Denwood

Yeah, I totally agree. I think, I think if you haven’t got a membership site or you haven’t got any kind of community feedback, you haven’t got a quite active YouTube channel, you’ve got a— you haven’t got an active Facebook group, a LinkedIn, you know, a LinkedIn newsletter. If you’ve got nothing, I think, I think you’d be best trying to launch your first course and then concentrate on the next one and concentrating at that and concentrating on building some online community. Then you can add community to it. I think, I think trying to to think that community is going to really help with the problem of selling. Where they go wrong is they think that offering community is going to help with the problem of selling the course, and it’s not going to do that. It just, it’s, it just won’t. Um, but if, if you have targeted your course and there’s a real need to what it offers, you can then look at adding community, um, as making the course more sticky and having more value. And you can offer additional upsells as well. Um, so, um, kill involuntary churn, the silent killer. Well, if you’ve got your initial students and it’s grown the right way.

[00:24:41.360] – Jonathan Denwood

Having what I call a leaky bucket, having as many people leaving the course that are signing up, it’s a bit of a problem. But funny enough, that’s where adding community is also— I think the 2 things is having a really well thought out onboarding process. And also just doing— if people are not engaging in the course, having some automation that offers them maybe some personal feedback, offering them something so to get them re-engaged. And then also maybe add at some stage adding community. What do you reckon?

[00:25:33.880] – Kurt von Ahnen

The payment, updating the payments, the payment failure and not reattempting payment, you know, 2 days, 3 days later. These are things that we see that are basic mistakes in some preexisting packages, like when they come to our agency and they want us to refresh something or, you know, rebuild something. When we look at how the original platform was put together, regardless of what platform it’s on, we’ll see that there’s a lot of things that aren’t optimized, like automatic reattempt for billing and things like that. And when you look at the percentage of renewal invoices that might fail, or the idea that, can the client easily update their payment method?

[00:26:21.630] – Speaker 4

A lot of sites, They can’t. And so instead of arguing or sending in a support request or an email, clients just let it go. They just, ah, forget it, I let it go. So if you build your platform around the idea of my customers can update their payment options easily, like it’s very clear-cut, very easy to go.

[00:26:43.700] – Kurt von Ahnen

Jonathan’s idea of a CRM with like reminders and built-in timing messages, that works perfect. And an invitation with a screen share instruction tutorial that says, hey, you know, your renewal’s coming. If you need to update your payment method, you know, follow these directions. If you take those steps and you show that you kind of care before the expiration date happens, you’re gonna have a much higher percentage of people that stay with you. So I think it’s, it’s huge. The other side of the coin, and I’ll go back to this again, Jonathan, is, is is course completion. If someone lost interest at lesson 4, lost interest at lesson 6, and you don’t have something that re-engages them or something that says, hey, I haven’t seen your homework for lesson 6 yet, you know, did you know here’s the link to it? Like, if you don’t have a way to keep people engaged or they feel like they’ve been ignored, they’re just gonna let it lapse. And so your job is to keep them on the hook.

[00:27:43.740] – Jonathan Denwood

Yeah, thanks for that. Make retention an active measured process. Well, I, I, I, I don’t know what you think about this, Kurt, but I think, um, I think offering one-price courses, you know, you, you pay one price and you’ve got lifetime access. I think on the lower level, I think that’s totally fine. And maybe the around the $499, the $497 price. But if then you build more access on uppriced courses, and then a lot of people, they do group access and then weekly or monthly combined with a more bigger course. And then there’s where they’re offering 1-to-1 coaching. And if you bought the medium product, you get a discount if you want 1-to-1 access to the expert. There’s all— there’s all certain ways, isn’t there, of, of doing this, isn’t there? What do you reckon?

[00:28:59.620] – Kurt von Ahnen

Yeah, you know, it’s interesting because I think about this one project a lot, obviously. We have an enterprise learning package that we sell to retailers, and it’s $45,000 a year for their store. So we’ll train all the applicable staff members for this content. We’ll train all their staff members for the 45 grand, and we do live sessions and coaching and review their homework and do this stuff very interactively. So you go, yeah, that’s a lot, right? But you’ll notice I say it’s a year, like we give them annual access and then Trying to factor in like, what’s the churn rate at the retail level, right? For new people coming into the business we’ve been training, you know, I’m not gonna give them lifetime access and then train their new staff forever, right? So we have it set up on an annual payment. So yeah, you get access for a year and boom, boom, boom. And if 9 months goes by and the people we trained, you know, quit, leave, move, whatever, and they hire new staff, if they have seen the results from training with the preexisting staff, then obviously they’re gonna say, hey, it’s worth the $45 grand, let’s just re-up for another year.

[00:30:09.310] – Kurt von Ahnen

year and keep this thing pushing. And it’s interesting the way that you phrase that, because you said if it’s an entry-level course at entry-level pricing, maybe lifetime access is okay, it’s acceptable. But when things get pricier or more involved, then you’re going to want to put time limits on things and expirations and leave things available for renewal. And I tend to agree 100%. I have courses I’ve offered for $49 or $47 or whatever, and they’re lifetime access. As long as those websites are up, people can access that content. Yeah. But I don’t have to do anything with it. It’s— they’re just static courses and people have access to them. If the minute that you say, I’m gonna do office hours or workshops or monthly calls or anything like that, you are back to exchanging time for dollars. You might not want to admit that, but you are. And so when you put yourself in a position of exchanging time for dollars, you want to make sure those dollars keep coming.

[00:31:08.970] – Jonathan Denwood

Yeah, a lot of people, they like the next, the next thing up is that they offer office hours group meeting, don’t they?

[00:31:17.440] – Kurt von Ahnen

Yeah.

[00:31:18.160] – Jonathan Denwood

Um, and but then if they’re all that, the next one up is they can do physical event, they can do a physical a week at a certain price, or, and then normally what the top, top of the funnel is 1-to-1 coaching with the expert, with the, with the— but normally that, that’s at a much higher price. So it’s a kind of a pyramid, isn’t it? And that’s totally acceptable. So any final thoughts, Kurt?

[00:31:52.000] – Kurt von Ahnen

For me, and when I talk to my clients, you know, I talk about KPIs a lot, key performance indicators. I do an awful lot of business consulting and a lot of business training in other verticals. And I’m always amazed, like when I talk to retailers, when I talk to people in this space, rarely do they actually know the numbers. Like they might know their revenue. They might say, oh yeah, we sold, we sold 1,000 students this year, right? At $500 apiece, right? So that’s $500,000 or whatever. So they know that, but they don’t, they don’t know the real key performance indicators of what drives their business, right? So how much was the hosting? How much was the software? How much is, you know, your annual renewal of things. What was your attrition rate? What was your credit card fees? What was your— and you start itemizing these things out, but then you start looking at other KPIs, key performance indicators, like how many new students went to the course within the first 24 hours, 48 hours? How many stayed with it past a week? How many— what was the attrition or drop-off after 30 days?

[00:32:59.060] – Kurt von Ahnen

What was the— And you need to track that stuff. And then that forms kind of like a database of performance for you.

[00:33:06.540] – Speaker 4

And then you can say, okay, what can I tweak to make this column go up or tweak to make this column go down? And it’s really important, Jonathan. I feel like, like I said, there’s people I consult with in the normal retail business-to-customer space, like physical brick and mortar, that don’t track their KPIs in a proactive, efficient way.

[00:33:30.040] – Kurt von Ahnen

But man, in the online space, Jonathan, it feels like a lot of this just goes right over their heads. They just, they have the hosting and they look at the revenue that the site brings in, but they don’t really understand where the revenue comes from or how to maintain or optimize that revenue. And so knowing your numbers and studying your numbers is a very important part of the process.

[00:33:52.080] – Jonathan Denwood

I think I would slightly differ with you. I think at a certain moment it’s really important But I think at the start it’s just marketing and keeping your costs as low as keeping your costs under control, which WordPress is great at because these other platforms, they get really pricey really quick.

[00:34:16.210] – Kurt von Ahnen

Yeah, they do.

[00:34:17.710] – Jonathan Denwood

In my experience, and very pricey. Well, I think that’s a good place. I think we’ve given some good advice. So Kirk, what’s the best place for people to find out more about you and what you’re up to?

[00:34:30.330] – Speaker 4

Well, you can find me on LinkedIn. I’m the only Kurt Von Ahnen on LinkedIn, so it’s easy. We also own Mañana No Más. So anything on social that’s branded Mañana No Más or mañananomas.com, or if you want to reach out to Jonathan at [email protected], he can always refer you to me.

[00:34:47.540] – Jonathan Denwood

Yeah. And you can book a free chat with me by going to the WP-Tonic website. And I’m more than happy to discuss what you’re planning and give you some honest advice. Hopefully you decide to host with WP-Tonic. That would be great. We will be back next week with another great topic. We’ll see you soon, folks. Bye.

[00:35:12.840] – Speaker 1

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