Insights Connected to Building a Highly Successful SaaS Business

Richard is a serial entrepreneur with over 25 years of experience pioneering businesses and new technologies that address long-standing gaps in the marketplace and solve real problems for real people.

Six years ago I was flooded with requests for meetings and consultations to share my business expertise, but lacked a simple way to manage bookings or charge for my time. Fast forward to today and I’ve transformed those lemons into lemonade with Book Like A Boss – the industry-leading landing page builder engineered to support entrepreneurs and companies requiring a hands-off approach to converting visitors into customers, in over 100 countries.

Also, go to the Book Like a Boss Website and use this coupon code (wptonic) and you get 25% off the solopreneur plan level.

This Week Show’s Sponsors

Castos: Castos

LaunchFlows: LaunchFlows Bertha

Hustlefish Hustlefish

Main Questions During For Interview

#1 – What’s the background story behind “Book Like a Boss?”

#2 – Book Like a Boss seems to be in a quite competitive sector would you agree with this statement and if correct what attracted you to this sector?

#3 – What have been some of the biggest and surprising things you have learned connected to growing “Book Like a Boss?”

#4 – What are some of the biggest opportunities and threats that “Book Like a Boss faces in the next 18 months?

#5 – What have been some of the most effective strategies connected to growing “Book Like a Boss?”

#6 – If you were mentoring a start-up founder what key advice would you give this person?

Here’s The Full Transcript of This Great Interview

Intro: Welcome to the WP-tonic WordPress and SaaS podcast, Jonathan Denwood and his co-host Steven Sauder interview the leading experts in WordPress e-learning and online marketing to help WordPress professionals launch their own SAS. Take it away, guys
Steven Sauder: Welcome back folks to the WP-Tonic podcast, today, we got an amazing guest with us. Nachum Kligman, is the joint founder of Book, like a Boss. so we’re going to dive into Book like a Boss, learn about what it is, how it can help because ultimately booking meetings is how you close sales. Nachum, do you wanna just quickly give us maybe a 3-second intro, about yourself? And then we’ll dive in.

Nachum Kligman: Sure got to be 30 seconds. So I’ve been an entrepreneur since birth, got kicked out of every school. I went to work for somebody once, got fired after five months, started a few, companies in the high-tech space, got four patents in the video, space. I started book like a boss about five years ago and I live in Israel and I have nine children.

Steven Sauder: Wow, perfect. Jonathan, you wanna introduce yourself to, the new listeners and viewers? 

Jonathan Denwood: Yes. Hi There folks. I’m the founder of WP-Tonic. We help entrepreneurs and businesses and education establishments build e-learning, through learning management systems and through membership sites, we help you make money from e-learning or educate for your internal purposes back over to you. 

Steven Sauder: Perfect. And I think forgot to mention that this is episode 663. So for those that is counting.

Jonathan Denwood: It’s 665, actually 

Steven Sauder: 665 how could I get that wrong?

Nachum Kligman: Wow, man.

Steven Sauder: Two more. 

Nachum Kligman: My lucky number

Steven Sauder: Doing podcast, like crazy. All right. So we’re gonna take a quick break and hear from our major sponsor and we’ll be right back.

 ad: Hi there folks. I just want to tell you about our major sponsor and that’s Castos. If you’re looking to get into podcasting for yourself or for clients, you need a top-quality podcasting platform, and that’s what you get with Castos. It has a superb interface, is really easy to use, and you’re not penalized for success. They have a flat-rate pricing structure. Don’t matter how many podcasts do you make? How many downloads do you achieve? You’ll just pay one, fixed-rate with Castos. Customer support and just the quality of the people are just amazing.

Steven Sauder: All right, coming back. We just heard from Castos they have some amazing deals going on right now. If you wanna learn more about Castos head to slash recommendations, and you can see all the recommendations that WP-Tonic made and find some amazing deals on Castos. All right. Nachum, let’s dive in here and learn, like, what is the background story behind Book like a Boss you mentioned in your intro that you’ve done quite a few different businesses. But where did Book like a Boss come from? How did you come up with that idea?

Nachum Kligman: Absolutely. So what happened was, is after one of my companies, actually, I started an apparel company after being in high tech for about 15 years. And, I wanted to design, clothing for special needs children. And I said how hard is it to create a shirt? And it was a lot harder than I thought it was. And it was a labor of love. And I put, two years of my life into it, and due to manufacturing issues with China and, some other issues with some investors I had to sadly close it. And I was so burnt out, because that, you guys know when, when you start a company, put everything into it and your blood, love life and tears. And so I decided, what said, I’m gonna take a break from entrepreneurship, take a break from starting companies and I’m gonna coach start and I’m gonna write a book and start a podcast.

And so I did and my, book did pretty well in its niche and podcast also. And I had people, were emailing me all the time saying, hey, can I take out for coffee? Can I buy you lunch or call me up, said, Hey, can I pick your brain? And I was just like, well, I charged for my time, oh, how much you, I charged $250 an hour. Oh wow. $250 an hour. Why, well, what does that include? Can you tell me a little bit more? When it was a free cup of coffee, they didn’t need all the details. Now we’re paying money for it. So, let’s hear a little bit more and it was just a back and forth time waster. And I said what it would be great if I just had when someone contacts me a first time, I said, and they wanna book me. I say, you know what, here’s a link go to it. See the different services I offer. See testimonials about me, read to frequently asked questions. So you have all your answers on the spot, learn more about me and then book me and pay for it all from one place. And that way, that way I know that you’re serious and you can confirm your booking and I get paid. 

Nothing like that existed. And so I tried building in a WordPress funny enough and, I wasn’t a WordPress expert and so I butchered it. And I tried to hire, I wanted to hire, a, a WordPress expert and he wanted like three, three grand to do it. And I was just like, forget it. I needed something to work fast and that was good for mobile. And that when something got updated, wouldn’t throw off everything else. And, so I was thinking about this problem, this pain point that I had. And then a couple of weeks later, a friend of mine whose sister is a masseuse, emailed him and said, listen, I’m not technical at all. I’m just looking for like a one-page website where could say, Hey, these are the massages I offer. Here’s my calendar that people book me and pay for it all from one page that such a thing exists. And so he, emailed this because he knows I was into technology. And I said, wow, that’s when the bug hit me. And I said you know what, if she, as a masseuse has this issue, I, as a business consultant has this issue with the gig economy and 50% of millennials, having their side hustles. I bet there’s a huge opportunity here to make it easy for people to sell services online.

I pitched a good friend of mine. My co-founder Devin, who’s a phenomenal developer and he loved the idea and we set off to, build, towards the end of 2015. 

Steven Sauder: Nice. Wow. That’s amazing. Jonathan, over to You. 

Jonathan Denwood: Yeah. It’s kind of linked to the first question, you kind of described the founding idea, but the reality is it’s a quite competitive area. There are some big competitors, well-funded, big competitors, in the booking calendar. There’s no lack of competitors. I dunno what the landscape was five years ago, if the competitive landscape was a bit less and they just all come in, but it does seem, first of all, would you agree that it’s quite competitive? And how did you- this, ain’t the first pony that you’ve rid, so you must have looked at that factor and you must have come to the conclusion that it wasn’t gonna de deter you. Can you go through, first of all, would you agree with my fundamental question? And secondly, how did you look at it if you do agree with the first point? 
Nachum Kligman:
Absolutely. It’s a great question. So the online scheduling space was very crowded, even back five years ago, there were hundreds of them, you, there were ones made specifically for WordPress. There was of course count. There was, schedule once there was, 10 to 8 and there there’s a whole bunch of them. But for us, the funny thing is we didn’t set out to create an online scheduling platform. That wasn’t what we were about. We were looking to be the Shopify of services, that if you sell service, whether you’re a barber or a therapist or a doctor or lawyer, an accountant, a bookkeeper, whatever it is, and you want an easy, a painter plumber technician, if you wanted an easy way to sell your service online, that was the market we were going after. The problem was that there were no real competitors in that space for what we were doing. It was hard to explain and teach the market. 

So when we first launched, it was suggested to us, we launched an app Somo and it was suggested to us to come out as an online scheduling app with benefits. And, so when we first came out, we did go with that space. Because  90% of what we developed was scheduling was just, about another 10, 15%. That was the secret sauce that made us different, especially in the early stages. Now we’re way different. And it is a challenge. Cause whenever we, in the first 30 seconds, whenever I start talking about Book like a Boss, someone will say, so you’re like Calendly and like, no, no we’re not like Calendly. As a matter of fact, if you go to not, you will see a landing page, explaining exactly how we’re not Calendly and over, 30 differences between us and them.

So the online scheduling space is crowded. You’d still see, even though it’s crowded, you still see another three or four new companies coming up. SaaS companies coming up every year, AppSumo develop their own scheduling app to compete with Calendly. But that’s really not where we’re headed. That’s not, we’re not looking to be a scheduling app that yes, we can do everything that these scheduling apps do, but really about creating unlimited, customized landing pages for all your booking needs. It’s not just a one on one meeting. You could run events through us, you could run memberships through us. You could run, classes through us. You can run, group bookings and masterminds and, video, webinars, et cetera. It’s all simple and easy to use. So we really are headed in a different direction than what that space really is.

It’s fascinating, I was just before this call, I was speaking, I was speaking to an accelerator, that was looking into us and, I told him that the main thing, that, people when they understand who we are and our customers and our customers love us. And, we have over 50,000 users now that when we speak to them and we have like one on one meetings and they’re just like blown away, like, oh my gosh, I didn’t know you could do this We just signed a contract. I just got it back. today about an hour ago with a big university out of Florida, that’s using us to do campus tours and they’re like, we wouldn’t know who to use if it wasn’t for you guys, cuz you can’t run campus tours with everything that we offer, on something like Calendly. So there’s a huge market and a huge opportunity. Now it’s really about where we are as a company and maybe talk about that as well, to really blow that out and get it out there.

Jonathan Denwood: Yeah. Just a quick follow-through question. As I could tell you were getting quite passionate about it, not being compared to Calendly. Gotta be honest with you. I don’t totally follow your logic really, but you are much more successful in it than me and you strike me as a very logical person. So I’m not understanding so it’s down to me. what I mean by that is, does it really matter that they think that’s like Calendly, it has a really big market and if you add all these extra features, why were you getting so passionate that it’s not compared to a hundred million plus the, very large market, does it really matter?

Nachum Kligman: You know why? Because I think it’s like you said before like when you asked the question, like when you were coming into this market, you saw the competition out there and you said, yeah, I want to get in here. That would’ve been crazy. If  I would’ve said, Hey, I wanna build a new calendaring system. And I went up against, all these big, well-funded companies that have been around for years even, and had millions of users I would’ve been stupid to have done that. That was never, our intention was, was to build a competitor to any of these guys out there. Our intention was always to be a platform that makes it simple to sell services online, take payments and the pages are optimized. Another big difference between us is that you go to a Calendly page and it’s a boring little calendar. With us you could see videos, you could see photos, you could have frequently asked questions. You have testimonials, you have everything that’s needed in order to close the sale so that the pages themselves act as closings for your business.  
Jonathan Denwood:
Yeah, I think it’s a superb product. I’ll be honest to the tribe. That’s what we call our listeners and viewers, is I actually use your product for my own business and in fact, upgraded it to the business level. And I’ve been using your product for the past three years. And it’s a key part- we are a very strong part, of the word press community, and I still choose to use your product. 

Nachum Kligman: Thank you so much. So, and 

Jonathan Denwood: He didn’t pay me for that. I’ll be sending the invoice to you after the show is over to Steven.  
Steven Sauder:
That’s really interesting, hearing you explain the difference because like I’ve used Calendly before and like HubSpot meetings before and all that stuff. And like, it works great when you wanna book a meeting with a person that you already know that you have a relationship with and you have one thing that you’re really offering and they have payment stuff, but like it can get, because like there’s not that many variables that you can add to it. In reviewing your product and kind of looking into it, before this meeting, I was really impressed with the sophistication that you can apply to your service because there’s this huge trend I feel like to try to productize your service like how do you make your service more productized? And it seems like Book like a Boss helps you kind of go down that avenue or that route on selling that service or product, on-site. 

When somebody’s like thinking about right. I have these services that I offer, I wanna know how to get people to pay for them and book them. Like how does somebody who hasn’t like used any of this service, hasn’t used Book like a Boss starts thinking through the strategy of how to roll that out to their clients and start selling it through a platform like Book like a Boss?

Nachum Kligman: Excellent question. So I assume you guys are on, LinkedIn.  
Steven Sauder:

Nachum Kligman: Yeah. So one of the biggest problems with LinkedIn that I see is that you could go to somebody, you could see their profile, like, oh, that’s interesting. Maybe you’d wanna follow up. Maybe you’d wanna hire the person, but there’s no way to really do that. You don’t see anything. You don’t see what services they offer. Don’t see how much they cost. You don’t really see, being able to take the relationship to the next level other than messaging them. So I get these messages all the time, from LinkedIn, Hey, how are you? Wanna, can I tell you a bit more about myself? And it would be so much easier if you just send me one link that says, this is who I am. This is what I do. This is what I offer. And then I can decide whether I wanna book you or not. At least now it’s in my hands, on my own time that I could see and learn more about you. Right. So definitely, using the link in your Twitter, on your Twitter page and, LinkedIn, social media, your emails, right, where you wanna spread the word, about your services in–

Jonathan Denwood: I just wanted to interrupt. Which I sometimes do

Nachum Kligman: It’s your show? 
Jonathan Denwood:
It’s obvious to me that LinkedIn needs to hire you as a consultant. You got a much better idea of what they should do than what they’ve done.

Nachum Kligman: Well, they started, dabbling in these areas, and sometimes when you’re a company that’s big like someone asked me recently, am I worried about Calendly, getting into doing what we’re doing and absolutely not. I mean, Calendly is huge. I mean, they’re, a multi-billion dollar company valuation-wise and customer-wise. They’re doing extremely well. They are not looking to become a, landing page company into getting into the service industry. They may add on different features, and they do that from time to time. We’ve even seen them copy some of the features that we’ve had out before them. and there’s still, obviously some that, that they’re missing that people love about us, but in going, they’re not gonna change their whole business model because some small company with 50,000  users is, starting to make a little bit of noise. So I’m not really too concerned about, like, the competition out there and, especially the big players, it’s very hard for them to move. So like LinkedIn. Yeah. They should. And, I’ll tell you guys a little secret between the three of us this won’t go anywhere, right? 

Steven Sauder: Yeah. Yeah.

Jonathan Denwood: Goes out to about 5,000 people. 
Nachum Kligman:
So I had a meeting with, Michael Kaufman, who’s the co-founder and CEO of Fiverr a couple of years ago, he gave us an hour of his time. My co-founder and I, met with him an unbelievable guy, and he really loved what we were doing. And he gave me one bit of advice, which is,  gonna be the future of what we’re gonna try to do with this product. And something I just touched on. He said, if you could bring business to your users, then you’ll be gold. Right. And it’s the whole idea of having a marketplace and marketplaces, we know are extremely difficult to create, and you need to put in millions of dollars because, if you don’t have anybody coming to the website, nobody wants to be in there. Nobody wants to be in there if there’s nobody coming to the website.

So what we did is strategical, we said, okay, let’s first get a product that’s awesome that people love, and that can stand as itself. But the future of where we’re gonna go with this product is that we’re gonna start to bring business to our users, and how we’re gonna do that? You’ll have to wait and see, but, that is gonna be a big part we’re gonna do. But that is the idea of LinkedIn that, it’s, it’s such a shame. There are so many times I may see a creative writer or, or a designer and say, you know what, maybe I would use them. But, I wanna see a little bit more about them. I want to maybe book a 15-minute call and to have to everything today is about saving time and, and making things, smoother and work better. It’s a waste of time, have to go back and forth with people and say, and waiting for them to reply. And then, oh, sudden you wanna book my calendar and there’s a whole discussion I don’t know if you guys saw on Twitter. There’s a whole big blow-up now with people–, people get really offended when someone sends them a calendar link. Have these VCs out there that are saying, who are you to send me your calendar link? Do you want a book with me? I’ll send you my calendar link.

Jonathan Denwood:
Well I think they need to get up their ass that’s what I think. 
Nachum Kligman:
But it’s true. It’s an ego thing. It’s like when I meet with somebody, of course I say, Hey, here’s my calendar link. Please let me know if any times work, if not, please feel free to send me, your calendar link let me know when you’re available why should I have to wait to take it to the level of booking time? First to wait for you to send your calendar. Let’s save time. And, and let’s not be so uptight about it. If someone sends you a calendar link you get insulted, I’m just letting you know this is when I’m available. You don’t like it. It’s not good for you that’s fine. Let me know, but it’s not, it’s not meant to be alike I’m better than you. It’s just that this is my availability based on the reality of life. Yeah.

Steven Sauder: That is a very strange, idea because like, by sending somebody a calendar link, you are increasing efficiency and it’s practical. Like if you just look at it from a very logical practical standpoint, it’s like, it makes sense a hundred percent. There’s nothing that doesn’t make sense about it. But there is this weird thing in society that the person that sends you the link is somehow superior to the person that is receiving the link. 

Nachum Kligman: Why, why? 

Steven Sauder: here’s how I’ve made sense of it in my mind. And I think where it goes is because if you look historically, traditionally assistants are the ones that are responsible for booking time. Now you’ve delegated the booking time job to the person that you’re trying to get to use your link. And I think it has something to do with this mental, like, shift. It doesn’t make sense from a logical standpoint, cuz it’s easier. It’s better. It’s simple. It’s faster. But I think–

Nachum Kligman: is it ego? Is it ego? 

Steven Sauder: Yes. I think it’s a hundred percent ego-driven because historically it was assistants that were like doing that. Yeah. Right. I think that’s where like,

Jonathan Denwood: Yeah, we need to go for our break.

Steven Sauder: Oh, sorry. I was getting excited. All right. We’re gonna go for a break. We will be right back.

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Steven Sauder: All right. Coming back, I’m having a really great discussion, with Nachum, from Book like a Boss. If you have time head over to the WP-Tonic website and sign up for the newsletter. You’re going to get some great emails, outlining some deals, and everything that’s going on with the WP-Tonic. 

So jumping back in here, we’ve been talking about, calendars booking meetings with people. How Book like a Boss can help do that. One of the big questions that have been circling around in my head is the idea of charging, introducing friction to the sales flow. So if somebody’s interested in purchasing my services, my product, if I just send them a link to book time that they can just book time whenever they want, they don’t have to charge for it. I’ll book a lot more meetings that way. Then maybe I can convert the person into a paying user. If I say no to book 30 minutes with me, it’s $150 or whatever you want to charge for your time. All of a sudden I’m gonna see a huge drop-off in those bookings. I would assume. You’ve been, building this company and I’m sure you’ve seen thousands and thousands of bookings go through, like, what is your view on putting that paywall? Is it worth it? Will you ultimately end up in a better place? What’s the perception around that?

Nachum Kligman: Excellent, excellent question. And again, the purpose of  Book like a Boss is to help you close sales and you’re right some people get turned off and they say, hey, you gotta pay me to meet with me. What I suggest and we have what’s called different types of booking pages. So one of our booking pages is called appointments that’s your regular scheduling app. And what I suggest to do is that you take one day of the week, maybe it’s Mondays and you open it up for 10-minute intro calls and you’ll open it up for, maybe take five or six intro calls on a Sunday. And you use that to book people that could be possible clients of yours. Now, when they book, you could prequalify them by asking specific questions, you could make it required. You could ask, different details about them. What their revenue is, or what their goals are, ask ’em, whatever questions at the time of booking. So you already have, a pretty good understanding of who they are.

Now. One of the things that we allow you to do is not allow the booking to go through until you confirm it. That was a big feature request from a lot of our users that we implemented a couple of years ago that, Calendly doesn’t have, and probably others don’t also is that the booking doesn’t go through until you confirm it. So you could confirm and just say, you know what, I appreciate your time, but I, I realize it’s not gonna work out for us, or it’s not you, not the right client or I couldn’t be helpful to you, whatever those things are.

So you could actually cut down through the system by getting those answers and offering the free 10-minute slot. You can cut down on wasted people that you feel are not a good fit for you. Right. But then at the same time, you’ll then also have 3, 4, 5, 6 people on a Monday that could be good intro calls, and you could follow ’em up after the intro call and say, Hey it was a great call let’s take this to next level and then send them, another link which they could book and pay for your time. Right. Or sell ’em a book or any other type of upselling. So we do allow for those free bookings which is a separate app in, in the page. And then we also allow you to sell services, as well. 

Steven Sauder: Nice. That’s smart. So you kind of let the user decide Hey, do I wanna do this free really quick call? Or do I wanna just move straight to that purchasing and get like the in like I already know, I know need the service. I know they’re gonna be helpful. I’m gonna buy, an hour right up front,

Nachum Kligman: Absolutely. In that way. Yeah. 

Jonathan Denwood: I also think it’s based on reputation because if you’re dealing with somebody that’s who she experienced, spent a lot of time promoting themselves, building a very large online audience that’s seen as a top-notch consultant, they’re gonna have to ask you to pay some money upfront because the one thing that’s really limited is their time. So they’re gonna get thousands of people approaching them. So it’s gonna be a way of filtering those that really to talk to that individual doesn’t so that’s. I wanna go on to the other question, obviously what have been some of the biggest surprises, things that you didn’t anticipate in the journey of Book like a Boss over the five years?

Nachum Kligman: So things I didn’t anticipate, one, I definitely did not anticipate how long things take to develop. We decided to be a bootstrap company. And probably if I knew then what I know now I may have decided to, to raise money earlier, or to, or to have gone, a different route because, as a, a visionary to someone that has like real ideas of where I want the product to go, I still feel even after five years, we’re just getting started and there are so many more things that we want to do. And so many things we have to do, but when you’re limited in funds, you can only have X amount of developers, and apparently, you can’t just snap your fingers and, expect them to get things out. And so there have been things that I thought should only take a month that ended up taking six months.

Is extremely frustrating. But, it’s just the reality. I mean, it’s not like, my team is awesome. They’re great developers, but when you have a code-based the size of ours now. And when something happens, we get an immediate response, from hundreds and hundreds of people, in support, cuz we have so many tens of thousands of people using you that that tends to happen. So we have to be very careful, things just take time and you have to make sure the code is clean and you have to make sure that it’s no bugs and you have to, test and test and when you’re a small team, that makes it challenging. So, that was one thing I wasn’t expecting, but maybe I would’ve done a little bit differently, but it is what it is.

Jonathan Denwood: So I’m really part of the WordPress community, but also, involved myself with Rob Rowlin,  the, a joint founder drip, the email marketing before he sold it and he runs this micro-conference. Sure. I dunno if you’re aware, Rob’s a great guy and his wife are fantastic people and they run tiny seed where they offer, basic finance to people that also are bootstrapping their company. I think you already said it, that you might have been best have looked at some outside investment, but not true VC investment because then you got all the cause they’re using, they’re looking for unicorns, aren’t they? And they put so much pressure on you, but you think you should have got some outside money earlier, is that right? 

Nachum Kligman:
So yes and no. Yes. About getting some outside money earlier, or at least more like, I was, the first investment was 200 grand and then I think we raised, 60 grand from someone else and then maybe 150 grand, and it was done in piece Cause I kept trying to wait as long as possible before having to make money. We did a lot of lifetime deals. That brought in, six figures multiple times, which was a great cash infusion. And then we took on some debt that equity as well because I really didn’t wanna bring on, mainstream investors. And in one of my previous startups, I brought on VCs and raised, close to 10 million, for it. And it was a disaster in the end. When you take money from VCs, their goals are not your goals. And so that, that’s part of like the name book, like a boss is that we wanted to be bosses of our own destiny. And in fact, we didn’t take any investment money until we were already making money. That was one of the conditions I put on, making money because I’ve been down the route before about taking, investors’ money. And when they invest with you, you have to treat it as more important than your own funds. So you never wanna lose an investor’s money. So I said this time, if we take money book like a boss, it’s gonna be regenerating revenue. It’s not just some idea, but something that people love to use and is making money with.

It took us a year and a half from the time to start developing before. We actually took in that, that first investment. So like, like any organization, like tiny seed are they? And I think they are, they’re like a stepping stone. They expect you to be that tiny seed, but then get to your pre-seed and then take your seed. And then to your series, a series B, and maybe go that VC route, it’s hard to find investors, angel investors that just, are looking to make, we’re looking to do is to create a cash cow to build it up as big as we possibly can, can book like a boss, be a billion-dollar company. Can it be a unicorn? I think that the potential is there, do I want to be running the team that gets it to that space? That I don’t know, that’s a question I asked myself and, and, and, and my partner.

We only have one life to live. I have nine kids, I have an amazing wife and, my community life is extremely important to me. And so do I wanna manage a 300 person team? Do I want to have that pressure from investors that have poured millions and millions of dollars into you? Not necessarily. But I wanna create something that actually helps people and it helps them earn an income, whether it’s a side hustle or, or full-time income, I want to take pride in helping people do that. And I do wanna make as much money as possible can, but my goal isn’t necessarily to be a billion-dollar company.

Steven Sauder: Nice, perfect. Well, we’re at the close of our time here. 

Nachum Kligman: no,

Jonathan Denwood: No, for, for the podcast part.  
Steven Sauder:
Yeah for the podcast, but we do have bonus content. So, if you’re up for it, Nachum, will you hang around for another 15 minutes and do, do a little more– 

Nachum Kligman: Absolutely

Steven Sauder: Chat with us for bonus content. Awesome. Before we head out, Nachum, can you let people know how they can find out more about you and what you’re up to?

Nachum Kligman: Sure. Obviously definitely check out a “Book like a Boss” the best way to sign up for a 14-day free trial. And of course, if you think that we’re like Calendly go to to see how we’re, you can find me on LinkedIn. And do you guys know, we have a special offer for your listeners? 

Jonathan Denwood: I didn’t know. But, please tell and I’ll make sure it’s all in the show notes. 

Nachum Kligman: Okay, Fantastic. So when you guys check us out and, if you wanna upgrade to a paid plan, just use coupon code, WP-Tonic, WPTONIC. And we’re gonna give you 25% off of any annual or monthly plan, cuz we love your audience and we love you guys. And I think, it’s just a big fit with probably the people that listen to this podcast.

Jonathan Denwood: Yeah, I think it is. And I will personally recommend the product because it’s used on the WP-Tonic website and I’ve been really delighted with it over the years..

Steven Sauder: John, how can people learn more about you?

Jonathan Denwood: Just go to the WP-Tonic website, look at all the other great guests we’ve had, the knowledge we’ve shared in the WordPress SaaS community like I said we’re up to 665 episodes. We’ve had some great interviews and also join us on the round table show every Friday were, where we have a panel of WordPress and technology experts and we have great fun taking the Mickey out of some of the biggest names in tech, which is just delicious listeners and viewers, back over to you, Steven.

Steven Sauder: Perfect. Thanks, Jonathan. Please join us on the WP-Tonic mastermind Facebook group. You can find out what we’re all about and everything that’s going on. And you can watch the bonus content, which we’re heading into right now. So, you can watch the most content on the Facebook group and also the YouTube channel. Thanks for tuning in. See you all next week. Bye.

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